Wales should get its own tax and borrowing system - Silk report says

Free Press Series: Wales should get its own tax and borrowing system - Silk report says Wales should get its own tax and borrowing system - Silk report says

DEVOLVING tax and borrowing powers to Wales would empower the Welsh electorate and Government, increase responsibility and strengthen Wales and thus the United Kingdom, according to ta report by the Commission on Devolution in Wales published today.

The Commission’s report ‘Empowerment and Responsibility: Financial Powers to strengthen Wales’ makes 33 recommendations which, if implemented, will increase the financial accountability of the National Assembly for Wales and make it responsible for determining a proportion of its own budget for the first time.

The proposals to give Wales its own tax and borrowing system for the first time represent a significant change which should be implemented step-by-step to build experience and balancing risks to the Welsh and UK budgets.

The Commission recommends that the National Assembly for Wales should be empowered to take tax decisions in devolved policy areas, starting with the smaller yielding taxes:

• landfill tax, stamp duty land tax, and aggregates levy should be devolved and business rates should be fully devolved;

• Air Passenger Duty should be devolved for long-haul flights initially, with future full devolution possible;

• the Welsh Government should have increased power to introduce levies reflecting Welsh priorities.

To make the Welsh Government responsible for funding a material amount of the money it spends, significantly improving financial accountability, the Commission recommends:

• responsibility for income tax should be shared between Cardiff Bay and Westminster, with the Welsh Government being able to vary income tax rates within the UK income tax structure; · the transfer of income tax powers should be conditional upon resolving the issues of fair funding in a way that is agreed by both the Welsh and UK Governments;

• income tax devolution should be subject to a referendum and provisions for the referendum should be contained in a Wales Bill, which should be introduced in this Parliament to take forward the report’s recommendations;

• corporation tax should not be devolved unless it is devolved to Scotland and Northern Ireland. However, Wales should be able to have more than its population share of Enterprise Zones with enhanced capital allowances if the Welsh Government pays the incremental cost.

Where an existing UK tax is devolved, the report proposes fair mechanisms for determining the reduction in the block grant that would follow.

The report also makes a number of recommendations in relation to borrowing powers, including: • a power to borrow to support increased investment in infrastructure;

• a power to borrow to fund current spending to manage greater variability in tax revenues;

• borrowing powers to be subject to prudent limits agreed with HM Treasury.

The report also recommends other improvements in financial accountability, including publication of more information on the Welsh public finances, the development of a Welsh Government Treasury function and allowing the National Assembly to decide its own budget scrutiny processes.

The package of recommendations would ensure that around one quarter of devolved spending in Wales would be determined by taxes decided in Wales (including Council Tax and Business Rates).

The full report and its Executive Summary can be downloaded from the Commission’s website.

The Commission’s Chairman Paul Silk said: “Our package of recommendations meets the test of our Terms of Reference: to come up with recommendations which improve financial accountability, are consistent with the UK’s fiscal objectives and command a wide degree of support. In order to achieve this, we placed great emphasis on gathering evidence, consulting widely and listening to the wide range of views presented to us.

“The Commission worked closely as a team over the past year and have all agreed recommendations which we firmly believe would benefit Wales and strengthen its democracy and economy. Our proposals would provide the Welsh Government with an important set of fiscal levers and would enable political parties in Wales to offer people real fiscal choices. “What we are recommending is significant and historic. It will give Wales its own tax and borrowing system for the first time. The Commission is delighted to present our agreed report to the UK Government and we hope for speedy implementation.”

Secretary of State for Wales David Jones said: “I am grateful to Paul Silk and all the commissioners for their hard work in bringing together this report. I know that the Commission have sought opinions from across Wales, so that this report is reflective of a very wide range of views on the future fiscal responsibilities that the Welsh Assembly and the Welsh Government should hold.

“The Commission is supported by all four political parties in the Assembly and the publication of the report today demonstrates the importance of cross-party working.

“I will now consider the report’s recommendations, discuss with relevant colleagues across Government and respond formally in due course.”

Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Danny Alexander, said: "I am grateful to Paul Silk and the Commission for the expertise and rigour that they have brought to this important work. I look forward to reviewing the Commission's recommendations and working with the Welsh Government and all parties in the Welsh Assembly to deliver an ambitious outcome that best meets the needs of the people of Wales."

Comments (28)

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10:37am Mon 19 Nov 12

Howie' says...

Strange, no comment from Bob Evans denouncing the WAG and all things Welsh.
Strange, no comment from Bob Evans denouncing the WAG and all things Welsh. Howie'

11:25am Mon 19 Nov 12

Cymru Am Beth says...

From comments on Radio Wales, the vast majority of people who would support this come from West Wales.
The vast majority of people in the most populated regions of Wales,(Cardiff, Swansea, Newport) rejected the Welsh Assembly and DO NOT support further powers being allocated to them.
From comments on Radio Wales, the vast majority of people who would support this come from West Wales. The vast majority of people in the most populated regions of Wales,(Cardiff, Swansea, Newport) rejected the Welsh Assembly and DO NOT support further powers being allocated to them. Cymru Am Beth

11:30am Mon 19 Nov 12

Bobevans says...

t is though conditional upon agree to the phase out of Barnett funding
t is though conditional upon agree to the phase out of Barnett funding Bobevans

11:36am Mon 19 Nov 12

Severn40 says...

The recommendations in the report are sensible BUT I have grave reservations about the Welsh Government rising to the challenge. The whole point of the referendum last year was to give Wales the 'tools' to legislate laws geared towards the needs of Wales. Unfortunately, Carwyn Jones has failed to show any imagination on this - prefering the same course of jobs for the boys (Edwina Hart should have been sacked ages ago) and repeating the tired mantra that everything is Westminster's fault. The Welsh Government costs a fortune to run - its about time Carwyn Jones justifies this cost, takes a bit of responsibility and provides some radical leadership.
The recommendations in the report are sensible BUT I have grave reservations about the Welsh Government rising to the challenge. The whole point of the referendum last year was to give Wales the 'tools' to legislate laws geared towards the needs of Wales. Unfortunately, Carwyn Jones has failed to show any imagination on this - prefering the same course of jobs for the boys (Edwina Hart should have been sacked ages ago) and repeating the tired mantra that everything is Westminster's fault. The Welsh Government costs a fortune to run - its about time Carwyn Jones justifies this cost, takes a bit of responsibility and provides some radical leadership. Severn40

11:47am Mon 19 Nov 12

Llanmartinangel says...

Howie' wrote:
Strange, no comment from Bob Evans denouncing the WAG and all things Welsh.
Well I'm not about to step into his shoes but I just cannot see how this can work. Firstly, Wales has a disproportionate number of jobs funded from taxpayers money. The government pays them and takes some back. Wales also has a disproportionately high level of benefit claimants, no manufacturing base to speak of and no finance based service economy either. Should the burden of taxation therefore fall on the one's actually earning well and generating wealth, they could easily move the few miles from East Wales into England. And that's leaving aside the fact that, so poor is the current standard of AMs and WAG governance that some of them needed a course recently on how to ask questions, dress and sit at a table, paid for by the taxpayer. Cue another Greek tragedy in the making.
http://www.walesonli
ne.co.uk/news/wales-
news/2012/09/25/outc
ry-over-10k-spent-tr
aining-ams-how-to-as
k-questions-91466-31
901419/
[quote][p][bold]Howie'[/bold] wrote: Strange, no comment from Bob Evans denouncing the WAG and all things Welsh.[/p][/quote]Well I'm not about to step into his shoes but I just cannot see how this can work. Firstly, Wales has a disproportionate number of jobs funded from taxpayers money. The government pays them and takes some back. Wales also has a disproportionately high level of benefit claimants, no manufacturing base to speak of and no finance based service economy either. Should the burden of taxation therefore fall on the one's actually earning well and generating wealth, they could easily move the few miles from East Wales into England. And that's leaving aside the fact that, so poor is the current standard of AMs and WAG governance that some of them needed a course recently on how to ask questions, dress and sit at a table, paid for by the taxpayer. Cue another Greek tragedy in the making. http://www.walesonli ne.co.uk/news/wales- news/2012/09/25/outc ry-over-10k-spent-tr aining-ams-how-to-as k-questions-91466-31 901419/ Llanmartinangel

11:57am Mon 19 Nov 12

Mervyn James says...

Severn40 wrote:
The recommendations in the report are sensible BUT I have grave reservations about the Welsh Government rising to the challenge. The whole point of the referendum last year was to give Wales the 'tools' to legislate laws geared towards the needs of Wales. Unfortunately, Carwyn Jones has failed to show any imagination on this - prefering the same course of jobs for the boys (Edwina Hart should have been sacked ages ago) and repeating the tired mantra that everything is Westminster's fault. The Welsh Government costs a fortune to run - its about time Carwyn Jones justifies this cost, takes a bit of responsibility and provides some radical leadership.
The Scottish parliament costs even more to run, is Stormont free ! We need to understand for 100s of years there was ONLY an English/London based parliament, so cost is relative. As soon as we get rid of the labour/lib-dem/tory/
us or them types of politicians we can move on. That is where the problems are. No-one thinks about Wales, they are thinking.. what's in it for me ? I agree about Edwina Hart ! Leadership requires what Alex Salmond has, a MAJORITY. A real will to dump the old ways too...
[quote][p][bold]Severn40[/bold] wrote: The recommendations in the report are sensible BUT I have grave reservations about the Welsh Government rising to the challenge. The whole point of the referendum last year was to give Wales the 'tools' to legislate laws geared towards the needs of Wales. Unfortunately, Carwyn Jones has failed to show any imagination on this - prefering the same course of jobs for the boys (Edwina Hart should have been sacked ages ago) and repeating the tired mantra that everything is Westminster's fault. The Welsh Government costs a fortune to run - its about time Carwyn Jones justifies this cost, takes a bit of responsibility and provides some radical leadership.[/p][/quote]The Scottish parliament costs even more to run, is Stormont free ! We need to understand for 100s of years there was ONLY an English/London based parliament, so cost is relative. As soon as we get rid of the labour/lib-dem/tory/ us or them types of politicians we can move on. That is where the problems are. No-one thinks about Wales, they are thinking.. what's in it for me ? I agree about Edwina Hart ! Leadership requires what Alex Salmond has, a MAJORITY. A real will to dump the old ways too... Mervyn James

12:19pm Mon 19 Nov 12

Llanmartinangel says...

Mervyn James wrote:
Severn40 wrote:
The recommendations in the report are sensible BUT I have grave reservations about the Welsh Government rising to the challenge. The whole point of the referendum last year was to give Wales the 'tools' to legislate laws geared towards the needs of Wales. Unfortunately, Carwyn Jones has failed to show any imagination on this - prefering the same course of jobs for the boys (Edwina Hart should have been sacked ages ago) and repeating the tired mantra that everything is Westminster's fault. The Welsh Government costs a fortune to run - its about time Carwyn Jones justifies this cost, takes a bit of responsibility and provides some radical leadership.
The Scottish parliament costs even more to run, is Stormont free ! We need to understand for 100s of years there was ONLY an English/London based parliament, so cost is relative. As soon as we get rid of the labour/lib-dem/tory/

us or them types of politicians we can move on. That is where the problems are. No-one thinks about Wales, they are thinking.. what's in it for me ? I agree about Edwina Hart ! Leadership requires what Alex Salmond has, a MAJORITY. A real will to dump the old ways too...
It also needs an acceptance that there's no such thing as free money. Someone has to earn £5 for every quid Government spends. No short cuts, no magic. One of the reasons why Europe is in so much debt is that everyone is addicted to the idea that what you haven't got, you can borrow. And that administration is free. It isn't. The money spent on vanity projects is no different than that spent on the NHS. It's either earned or it's borrowed. If it's borrowed it still has to be earned, just a bit later. A measure of success would be getting people who vote for politicians with a spending list to realise that.
[quote][p][bold]Mervyn James[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Severn40[/bold] wrote: The recommendations in the report are sensible BUT I have grave reservations about the Welsh Government rising to the challenge. The whole point of the referendum last year was to give Wales the 'tools' to legislate laws geared towards the needs of Wales. Unfortunately, Carwyn Jones has failed to show any imagination on this - prefering the same course of jobs for the boys (Edwina Hart should have been sacked ages ago) and repeating the tired mantra that everything is Westminster's fault. The Welsh Government costs a fortune to run - its about time Carwyn Jones justifies this cost, takes a bit of responsibility and provides some radical leadership.[/p][/quote]The Scottish parliament costs even more to run, is Stormont free ! We need to understand for 100s of years there was ONLY an English/London based parliament, so cost is relative. As soon as we get rid of the labour/lib-dem/tory/ us or them types of politicians we can move on. That is where the problems are. No-one thinks about Wales, they are thinking.. what's in it for me ? I agree about Edwina Hart ! Leadership requires what Alex Salmond has, a MAJORITY. A real will to dump the old ways too...[/p][/quote]It also needs an acceptance that there's no such thing as free money. Someone has to earn £5 for every quid Government spends. No short cuts, no magic. One of the reasons why Europe is in so much debt is that everyone is addicted to the idea that what you haven't got, you can borrow. And that administration is free. It isn't. The money spent on vanity projects is no different than that spent on the NHS. It's either earned or it's borrowed. If it's borrowed it still has to be earned, just a bit later. A measure of success would be getting people who vote for politicians with a spending list to realise that. Llanmartinangel

12:41pm Mon 19 Nov 12

D Taylor says...

Cymru Am Beth wrote:
From comments on Radio Wales, the vast majority of people who would support this come from West Wales.
The vast majority of people in the most populated regions of Wales,(Cardiff, Swansea, Newport) rejected the Welsh Assembly and DO NOT support further powers being allocated to them.
From comments on Radio Wales? Only one district rejected the extention of WAG powers in the referendum last year and that was Monmouth. So what you say is not true.
[quote][p][bold]Cymru Am Beth[/bold] wrote: From comments on Radio Wales, the vast majority of people who would support this come from West Wales. The vast majority of people in the most populated regions of Wales,(Cardiff, Swansea, Newport) rejected the Welsh Assembly and DO NOT support further powers being allocated to them.[/p][/quote]From comments on Radio Wales? Only one district rejected the extention of WAG powers in the referendum last year and that was Monmouth. So what you say is not true. D Taylor

1:11pm Mon 19 Nov 12

Howie' says...

Bobevans wrote:
t is though conditional upon agree to the phase out of Barnett funding
I think I have deciphered what you are trying (trying being the operative word in your case, Bob) to say:

If you read a synopsis of the report Wales would be expected to raise 25% so the grant (Barnet Formula) would be reduced by that amount, NOT phased out. The Welsh Government said it had consistently argued that the Barnett Formula underfunded the people of Wales, and said talks are to be progressed by the UK Government - which in turn said there would be no replacement of Barnett until public finances were stabilised. Nothing there about Barnett being phased out, Bob. In fact quite the reverse.
[quote][p][bold]Bobevans[/bold] wrote: t is though conditional upon agree to the phase out of Barnett funding[/p][/quote]I think I have deciphered what you are trying (trying being the operative word in your case, Bob) to say: If you read a synopsis of the report Wales would be expected to raise 25% so the grant (Barnet Formula) would be reduced by that amount, NOT phased out. The Welsh Government said it had consistently argued that the Barnett Formula underfunded the people of Wales, and said talks are to be progressed by the UK Government - which in turn said there would be no replacement of Barnett until public finances were stabilised. Nothing there about Barnett being phased out, Bob. In fact quite the reverse. Howie'

1:33pm Mon 19 Nov 12

Howie' says...

Llanmartinangel wrote:
Howie' wrote:
Strange, no comment from Bob Evans denouncing the WAG and all things Welsh.
Well I'm not about to step into his shoes but I just cannot see how this can work. Firstly, Wales has a disproportionate number of jobs funded from taxpayers money. The government pays them and takes some back. Wales also has a disproportionately high level of benefit claimants, no manufacturing base to speak of and no finance based service economy either. Should the burden of taxation therefore fall on the one's actually earning well and generating wealth, they could easily move the few miles from East Wales into England. And that's leaving aside the fact that, so poor is the current standard of AMs and WAG governance that some of them needed a course recently on how to ask questions, dress and sit at a table, paid for by the taxpayer. Cue another Greek tragedy in the making.
http://www.walesonli

ne.co.uk/news/wales-

news/2012/09/25/outc

ry-over-10k-spent-tr

aining-ams-how-to-as

k-questions-91466-31

901419/
The devil will be in the detail but from what I have read so far it does not make for good reading. I thought that if Wales had control of taxes they would not dare raise them above English rates because of the risk of company's relocating the other side of the bridge, unfortunately what the report recommends is that Wales would be responsible for personal Income Tax and the aggregates levy, stamp duty, air passenger duty and landfill tax should all be devolved. Whilst corporation tax, national insurance, capital gains tax, VAT and fuel duty should all remain the responsibility of Westminster.

Whilst it can be argued that Tax raising powers are a natural extension of a devolved Government's responsibility's not having all taxation devolved minimises what Wales can do for it self in as much as it can increase/ decrease personal income tax but not attract businesses by having the right to reduce corporation tax or vary VAT to increase spending and to have the money for capital projects from Capital gains and fuel duty. It should be all or none.
[quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Howie'[/bold] wrote: Strange, no comment from Bob Evans denouncing the WAG and all things Welsh.[/p][/quote]Well I'm not about to step into his shoes but I just cannot see how this can work. Firstly, Wales has a disproportionate number of jobs funded from taxpayers money. The government pays them and takes some back. Wales also has a disproportionately high level of benefit claimants, no manufacturing base to speak of and no finance based service economy either. Should the burden of taxation therefore fall on the one's actually earning well and generating wealth, they could easily move the few miles from East Wales into England. And that's leaving aside the fact that, so poor is the current standard of AMs and WAG governance that some of them needed a course recently on how to ask questions, dress and sit at a table, paid for by the taxpayer. Cue another Greek tragedy in the making. http://www.walesonli ne.co.uk/news/wales- news/2012/09/25/outc ry-over-10k-spent-tr aining-ams-how-to-as k-questions-91466-31 901419/[/p][/quote]The devil will be in the detail but from what I have read so far it does not make for good reading. I thought that if Wales had control of taxes they would not dare raise them above English rates because of the risk of company's relocating the other side of the bridge, unfortunately what the report recommends is that Wales would be responsible for personal Income Tax and the aggregates levy, stamp duty, air passenger duty and landfill tax should all be devolved. Whilst corporation tax, national insurance, capital gains tax, VAT and fuel duty should all remain the responsibility of Westminster. Whilst it can be argued that Tax raising powers are a natural extension of a devolved Government's responsibility's not having all taxation devolved minimises what Wales can do for it self in as much as it can increase/ decrease personal income tax but not attract businesses by having the right to reduce corporation tax or vary VAT to increase spending and to have the money for capital projects from Capital gains and fuel duty. It should be all or none. Howie'

1:42pm Mon 19 Nov 12

Llanmartinangel says...

Howie' wrote:
Llanmartinangel wrote:
Howie' wrote:
Strange, no comment from Bob Evans denouncing the WAG and all things Welsh.
Well I'm not about to step into his shoes but I just cannot see how this can work. Firstly, Wales has a disproportionate number of jobs funded from taxpayers money. The government pays them and takes some back. Wales also has a disproportionately high level of benefit claimants, no manufacturing base to speak of and no finance based service economy either. Should the burden of taxation therefore fall on the one's actually earning well and generating wealth, they could easily move the few miles from East Wales into England. And that's leaving aside the fact that, so poor is the current standard of AMs and WAG governance that some of them needed a course recently on how to ask questions, dress and sit at a table, paid for by the taxpayer. Cue another Greek tragedy in the making.
http://www.walesonli


ne.co.uk/news/wales-


news/2012/09/25/outc


ry-over-10k-spent-tr


aining-ams-how-to-as


k-questions-91466-31


901419/
The devil will be in the detail but from what I have read so far it does not make for good reading. I thought that if Wales had control of taxes they would not dare raise them above English rates because of the risk of company's relocating the other side of the bridge, unfortunately what the report recommends is that Wales would be responsible for personal Income Tax and the aggregates levy, stamp duty, air passenger duty and landfill tax should all be devolved. Whilst corporation tax, national insurance, capital gains tax, VAT and fuel duty should all remain the responsibility of Westminster.

Whilst it can be argued that Tax raising powers are a natural extension of a devolved Government's responsibility's not having all taxation devolved minimises what Wales can do for it self in as much as it can increase/ decrease personal income tax but not attract businesses by having the right to reduce corporation tax or vary VAT to increase spending and to have the money for capital projects from Capital gains and fuel duty. It should be all or none.
Then it should be none. As a net recipient, Wales would then be entirely self-supporting. It cannot stand on it's own, not a snowball in hell's chance.
[quote][p][bold]Howie'[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Howie'[/bold] wrote: Strange, no comment from Bob Evans denouncing the WAG and all things Welsh.[/p][/quote]Well I'm not about to step into his shoes but I just cannot see how this can work. Firstly, Wales has a disproportionate number of jobs funded from taxpayers money. The government pays them and takes some back. Wales also has a disproportionately high level of benefit claimants, no manufacturing base to speak of and no finance based service economy either. Should the burden of taxation therefore fall on the one's actually earning well and generating wealth, they could easily move the few miles from East Wales into England. And that's leaving aside the fact that, so poor is the current standard of AMs and WAG governance that some of them needed a course recently on how to ask questions, dress and sit at a table, paid for by the taxpayer. Cue another Greek tragedy in the making. http://www.walesonli ne.co.uk/news/wales- news/2012/09/25/outc ry-over-10k-spent-tr aining-ams-how-to-as k-questions-91466-31 901419/[/p][/quote]The devil will be in the detail but from what I have read so far it does not make for good reading. I thought that if Wales had control of taxes they would not dare raise them above English rates because of the risk of company's relocating the other side of the bridge, unfortunately what the report recommends is that Wales would be responsible for personal Income Tax and the aggregates levy, stamp duty, air passenger duty and landfill tax should all be devolved. Whilst corporation tax, national insurance, capital gains tax, VAT and fuel duty should all remain the responsibility of Westminster. Whilst it can be argued that Tax raising powers are a natural extension of a devolved Government's responsibility's not having all taxation devolved minimises what Wales can do for it self in as much as it can increase/ decrease personal income tax but not attract businesses by having the right to reduce corporation tax or vary VAT to increase spending and to have the money for capital projects from Capital gains and fuel duty. It should be all or none.[/p][/quote]Then it should be none. As a net recipient, Wales would then be entirely self-supporting. It cannot stand on it's own, not a snowball in hell's chance. Llanmartinangel

2:00pm Mon 19 Nov 12

pinpong says...

Leave my income tax alone. Put your tax on air travel and i promise to always fly from Bristol. If you want to save money get rid of the assembly
Leave my income tax alone. Put your tax on air travel and i promise to always fly from Bristol. If you want to save money get rid of the assembly pinpong

4:28pm Mon 19 Nov 12

Howie' says...

Llanmartinangel wrote:
Howie' wrote:
Llanmartinangel wrote:
Howie' wrote:
Strange, no comment from Bob Evans denouncing the WAG and all things Welsh.
Well I'm not about to step into his shoes but I just cannot see how this can work. Firstly, Wales has a disproportionate number of jobs funded from taxpayers money. The government pays them and takes some back. Wales also has a disproportionately high level of benefit claimants, no manufacturing base to speak of and no finance based service economy either. Should the burden of taxation therefore fall on the one's actually earning well and generating wealth, they could easily move the few miles from East Wales into England. And that's leaving aside the fact that, so poor is the current standard of AMs and WAG governance that some of them needed a course recently on how to ask questions, dress and sit at a table, paid for by the taxpayer. Cue another Greek tragedy in the making.
http://www.walesonli



ne.co.uk/news/wales-



news/2012/09/25/outc



ry-over-10k-spent-tr



aining-ams-how-to-as



k-questions-91466-31



901419/
The devil will be in the detail but from what I have read so far it does not make for good reading. I thought that if Wales had control of taxes they would not dare raise them above English rates because of the risk of company's relocating the other side of the bridge, unfortunately what the report recommends is that Wales would be responsible for personal Income Tax and the aggregates levy, stamp duty, air passenger duty and landfill tax should all be devolved. Whilst corporation tax, national insurance, capital gains tax, VAT and fuel duty should all remain the responsibility of Westminster.

Whilst it can be argued that Tax raising powers are a natural extension of a devolved Government's responsibility's not having all taxation devolved minimises what Wales can do for it self in as much as it can increase/ decrease personal income tax but not attract businesses by having the right to reduce corporation tax or vary VAT to increase spending and to have the money for capital projects from Capital gains and fuel duty. It should be all or none.
Then it should be none. As a net recipient, Wales would then be entirely self-supporting. It cannot stand on it's own, not a snowball in hell's chance.
It cannot stand on it's own, not a snowball in hell's chance.

Quite agree.
[quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Howie'[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Howie'[/bold] wrote: Strange, no comment from Bob Evans denouncing the WAG and all things Welsh.[/p][/quote]Well I'm not about to step into his shoes but I just cannot see how this can work. Firstly, Wales has a disproportionate number of jobs funded from taxpayers money. The government pays them and takes some back. Wales also has a disproportionately high level of benefit claimants, no manufacturing base to speak of and no finance based service economy either. Should the burden of taxation therefore fall on the one's actually earning well and generating wealth, they could easily move the few miles from East Wales into England. And that's leaving aside the fact that, so poor is the current standard of AMs and WAG governance that some of them needed a course recently on how to ask questions, dress and sit at a table, paid for by the taxpayer. Cue another Greek tragedy in the making. http://www.walesonli ne.co.uk/news/wales- news/2012/09/25/outc ry-over-10k-spent-tr aining-ams-how-to-as k-questions-91466-31 901419/[/p][/quote]The devil will be in the detail but from what I have read so far it does not make for good reading. I thought that if Wales had control of taxes they would not dare raise them above English rates because of the risk of company's relocating the other side of the bridge, unfortunately what the report recommends is that Wales would be responsible for personal Income Tax and the aggregates levy, stamp duty, air passenger duty and landfill tax should all be devolved. Whilst corporation tax, national insurance, capital gains tax, VAT and fuel duty should all remain the responsibility of Westminster. Whilst it can be argued that Tax raising powers are a natural extension of a devolved Government's responsibility's not having all taxation devolved minimises what Wales can do for it self in as much as it can increase/ decrease personal income tax but not attract businesses by having the right to reduce corporation tax or vary VAT to increase spending and to have the money for capital projects from Capital gains and fuel duty. It should be all or none.[/p][/quote]Then it should be none. As a net recipient, Wales would then be entirely self-supporting. It cannot stand on it's own, not a snowball in hell's chance.[/p][/quote]It cannot stand on it's own, not a snowball in hell's chance. Quite agree. Howie'

9:47pm Mon 19 Nov 12

Robindabank says...

Before the Sennedd has the right to raise taxes, they should earn the right to show they would use the revenues wisely.....with the lowest GDP in the UK, amongst the worst educational standards etc. leadership to create wealth needs to be the first priority.
WG is a good thing but frankly their track record on what matters and what is required for sustainable growth is pretty poor...
Before the Sennedd has the right to raise taxes, they should earn the right to show they would use the revenues wisely.....with the lowest GDP in the UK, amongst the worst educational standards etc. leadership to create wealth needs to be the first priority. WG is a good thing but frankly their track record on what matters and what is required for sustainable growth is pretty poor... Robindabank

9:54pm Mon 19 Nov 12

chris2727 says...

This is a wind up article Wales has contributed nothing to the uk economy for 20 years all the WAG is is a expensive grant distribution point . The real reason for these extra powers is the extention of the vast buracracey that is the WAG
This is a wind up article Wales has contributed nothing to the uk economy for 20 years all the WAG is is a expensive grant distribution point . The real reason for these extra powers is the extention of the vast buracracey that is the WAG chris2727

12:05am Tue 20 Nov 12

D Taylor says...

What about all those Airbus wings, to quote one simple example.
What about all those Airbus wings, to quote one simple example. D Taylor

7:44am Tue 20 Nov 12

Llanmartinangel says...

D Taylor wrote:
What about all those Airbus wings, to quote one simple example.
5000 workers hardly makes a manufacturing base. The benefit bill alone in Wales is £9 Billion. There is no conceivable way of raising that sort of money in Wales, let alone the rest of government expenditure here.
[quote][p][bold]D Taylor[/bold] wrote: What about all those Airbus wings, to quote one simple example.[/p][/quote]5000 workers hardly makes a manufacturing base. The benefit bill alone in Wales is £9 Billion. There is no conceivable way of raising that sort of money in Wales, let alone the rest of government expenditure here. Llanmartinangel

9:16am Tue 20 Nov 12

Cymru Am Beth says...

Mervyn James wrote:
Severn40 wrote: The recommendations in the report are sensible BUT I have grave reservations about the Welsh Government rising to the challenge. The whole point of the referendum last year was to give Wales the 'tools' to legislate laws geared towards the needs of Wales. Unfortunately, Carwyn Jones has failed to show any imagination on this - prefering the same course of jobs for the boys (Edwina Hart should have been sacked ages ago) and repeating the tired mantra that everything is Westminster's fault. The Welsh Government costs a fortune to run - its about time Carwyn Jones justifies this cost, takes a bit of responsibility and provides some radical leadership.
The Scottish parliament costs even more to run, is Stormont free ! We need to understand for 100s of years there was ONLY an English/London based parliament, so cost is relative. As soon as we get rid of the labour/lib-dem/tory/ us or them types of politicians we can move on. That is where the problems are. No-one thinks about Wales, they are thinking.. what's in it for me ? I agree about Edwina Hart ! Leadership requires what Alex Salmond has, a MAJORITY. A real will to dump the old ways too...
It was reported a few days ago, that Scotland would be in trouble if it were to go it alone.
Apparently, it has stored up debt and the oil that they seem to rely on, is running out.
There is NO WAY that Wales would be able to do what Scotland is proposing.
However, it would be welcomed by minority Welsh speakers and Plaid Cymru, who otherwise wouldn't have a chance in h**l of getting into power.
[quote][p][bold]Mervyn James[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Severn40[/bold] wrote: The recommendations in the report are sensible BUT I have grave reservations about the Welsh Government rising to the challenge. The whole point of the referendum last year was to give Wales the 'tools' to legislate laws geared towards the needs of Wales. Unfortunately, Carwyn Jones has failed to show any imagination on this - prefering the same course of jobs for the boys (Edwina Hart should have been sacked ages ago) and repeating the tired mantra that everything is Westminster's fault. The Welsh Government costs a fortune to run - its about time Carwyn Jones justifies this cost, takes a bit of responsibility and provides some radical leadership.[/p][/quote]The Scottish parliament costs even more to run, is Stormont free ! We need to understand for 100s of years there was ONLY an English/London based parliament, so cost is relative. As soon as we get rid of the labour/lib-dem/tory/ us or them types of politicians we can move on. That is where the problems are. No-one thinks about Wales, they are thinking.. what's in it for me ? I agree about Edwina Hart ! Leadership requires what Alex Salmond has, a MAJORITY. A real will to dump the old ways too...[/p][/quote]It was reported a few days ago, that Scotland would be in trouble if it were to go it alone. Apparently, it has stored up debt and the oil that they seem to rely on, is running out. There is NO WAY that Wales would be able to do what Scotland is proposing. However, it would be welcomed by minority Welsh speakers and Plaid Cymru, who otherwise wouldn't have a chance in h**l of getting into power. Cymru Am Beth

9:22am Tue 20 Nov 12

Cymru Am Beth says...

Llanmartinangel wrote:
Mervyn James wrote:
Severn40 wrote: The recommendations in the report are sensible BUT I have grave reservations about the Welsh Government rising to the challenge. The whole point of the referendum last year was to give Wales the 'tools' to legislate laws geared towards the needs of Wales. Unfortunately, Carwyn Jones has failed to show any imagination on this - prefering the same course of jobs for the boys (Edwina Hart should have been sacked ages ago) and repeating the tired mantra that everything is Westminster's fault. The Welsh Government costs a fortune to run - its about time Carwyn Jones justifies this cost, takes a bit of responsibility and provides some radical leadership.
The Scottish parliament costs even more to run, is Stormont free ! We need to understand for 100s of years there was ONLY an English/London based parliament, so cost is relative. As soon as we get rid of the labour/lib-dem/tory/ us or them types of politicians we can move on. That is where the problems are. No-one thinks about Wales, they are thinking.. what's in it for me ? I agree about Edwina Hart ! Leadership requires what Alex Salmond has, a MAJORITY. A real will to dump the old ways too...
It also needs an acceptance that there's no such thing as free money. Someone has to earn £5 for every quid Government spends. No short cuts, no magic. One of the reasons why Europe is in so much debt is that everyone is addicted to the idea that what you haven't got, you can borrow. And that administration is free. It isn't. The money spent on vanity projects is no different than that spent on the NHS. It's either earned or it's borrowed. If it's borrowed it still has to be earned, just a bit later. A measure of success would be getting people who vote for politicians with a spending list to realise that.
Trouble is that the Socialist philosophy is based on 'tax and spend'.
As long as we have the representatives in Cardiff believing that you can 'rob from the rich and give it to the poor',then nothing will change for the better.
I dread to think what they would do to working people if they got tax raising powers.
[quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mervyn James[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Severn40[/bold] wrote: The recommendations in the report are sensible BUT I have grave reservations about the Welsh Government rising to the challenge. The whole point of the referendum last year was to give Wales the 'tools' to legislate laws geared towards the needs of Wales. Unfortunately, Carwyn Jones has failed to show any imagination on this - prefering the same course of jobs for the boys (Edwina Hart should have been sacked ages ago) and repeating the tired mantra that everything is Westminster's fault. The Welsh Government costs a fortune to run - its about time Carwyn Jones justifies this cost, takes a bit of responsibility and provides some radical leadership.[/p][/quote]The Scottish parliament costs even more to run, is Stormont free ! We need to understand for 100s of years there was ONLY an English/London based parliament, so cost is relative. As soon as we get rid of the labour/lib-dem/tory/ us or them types of politicians we can move on. That is where the problems are. No-one thinks about Wales, they are thinking.. what's in it for me ? I agree about Edwina Hart ! Leadership requires what Alex Salmond has, a MAJORITY. A real will to dump the old ways too...[/p][/quote]It also needs an acceptance that there's no such thing as free money. Someone has to earn £5 for every quid Government spends. No short cuts, no magic. One of the reasons why Europe is in so much debt is that everyone is addicted to the idea that what you haven't got, you can borrow. And that administration is free. It isn't. The money spent on vanity projects is no different than that spent on the NHS. It's either earned or it's borrowed. If it's borrowed it still has to be earned, just a bit later. A measure of success would be getting people who vote for politicians with a spending list to realise that.[/p][/quote]Trouble is that the Socialist philosophy is based on 'tax and spend'. As long as we have the representatives in Cardiff believing that you can 'rob from the rich and give it to the poor',then nothing will change for the better. I dread to think what they would do to working people if they got tax raising powers. Cymru Am Beth

10:36am Tue 20 Nov 12

D Taylor says...

Llanmartinangel wrote:
D Taylor wrote:
What about all those Airbus wings, to quote one simple example.
5000 workers hardly makes a manufacturing base. The benefit bill alone in Wales is £9 Billion. There is no conceivable way of raising that sort of money in Wales, let alone the rest of government expenditure here.
If you looked at the English regions outside of the South East I expect you would find the same picture. We are all now dependent on London and the south east and the financial services industry and other service sectors which are based there. Anything that strengthens the regions ability to act independently and break the stranglehold the south east of England has on us is a good thing in my view.
[quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]D Taylor[/bold] wrote: What about all those Airbus wings, to quote one simple example.[/p][/quote]5000 workers hardly makes a manufacturing base. The benefit bill alone in Wales is £9 Billion. There is no conceivable way of raising that sort of money in Wales, let alone the rest of government expenditure here.[/p][/quote]If you looked at the English regions outside of the South East I expect you would find the same picture. We are all now dependent on London and the south east and the financial services industry and other service sectors which are based there. Anything that strengthens the regions ability to act independently and break the stranglehold the south east of England has on us is a good thing in my view. D Taylor

10:50am Tue 20 Nov 12

Llanmartinangel says...

D Taylor wrote:
Llanmartinangel wrote:
D Taylor wrote:
What about all those Airbus wings, to quote one simple example.
5000 workers hardly makes a manufacturing base. The benefit bill alone in Wales is £9 Billion. There is no conceivable way of raising that sort of money in Wales, let alone the rest of government expenditure here.
If you looked at the English regions outside of the South East I expect you would find the same picture. We are all now dependent on London and the south east and the financial services industry and other service sectors which are based there. Anything that strengthens the regions ability to act independently and break the stranglehold the south east of England has on us is a good thing in my view.
You've been watching too much "Braveheart', which was another work of fantasy by the way. By 'stranglehold' do you mean 'generate the wealth that Wales relies on and can't generate for itself'? Under the last government, one third of all tax collected in the UK came from within the square mile. An entirely independent Wales would have no means of generating anything like enough money to pay it's own benefit bill, let alone health service, roads pensions etc. Yes, manufacturing and services are scattered around England but the difference is that they would still have them without having Wales and Scotland to bankroll. In short they would be massively richer and Wales bankrupt.
[quote][p][bold]D Taylor[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]D Taylor[/bold] wrote: What about all those Airbus wings, to quote one simple example.[/p][/quote]5000 workers hardly makes a manufacturing base. The benefit bill alone in Wales is £9 Billion. There is no conceivable way of raising that sort of money in Wales, let alone the rest of government expenditure here.[/p][/quote]If you looked at the English regions outside of the South East I expect you would find the same picture. We are all now dependent on London and the south east and the financial services industry and other service sectors which are based there. Anything that strengthens the regions ability to act independently and break the stranglehold the south east of England has on us is a good thing in my view.[/p][/quote]You've been watching too much "Braveheart', which was another work of fantasy by the way. By 'stranglehold' do you mean 'generate the wealth that Wales relies on and can't generate for itself'? Under the last government, one third of all tax collected in the UK came from within the square mile. An entirely independent Wales would have no means of generating anything like enough money to pay it's own benefit bill, let alone health service, roads pensions etc. Yes, manufacturing and services are scattered around England but the difference is that they would still have them without having Wales and Scotland to bankroll. In short they would be massively richer and Wales bankrupt. Llanmartinangel

3:21pm Tue 20 Nov 12

Cymru Am Beth says...

D Taylor wrote:
Cymru Am Beth wrote: From comments on Radio Wales, the vast majority of people who would support this come from West Wales. The vast majority of people in the most populated regions of Wales,(Cardiff, Swansea, Newport) rejected the Welsh Assembly and DO NOT support further powers being allocated to them.
From comments on Radio Wales? Only one district rejected the extention of WAG powers in the referendum last year and that was Monmouth. So what you say is not true.
I am talking about the initial vote not the extension of powers.
We all know that Blair fixed it in order to get a yes vote.
It is a fact that most people in Wales voted against having an Assembly.
[quote][p][bold]D Taylor[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Cymru Am Beth[/bold] wrote: From comments on Radio Wales, the vast majority of people who would support this come from West Wales. The vast majority of people in the most populated regions of Wales,(Cardiff, Swansea, Newport) rejected the Welsh Assembly and DO NOT support further powers being allocated to them.[/p][/quote]From comments on Radio Wales? Only one district rejected the extention of WAG powers in the referendum last year and that was Monmouth. So what you say is not true.[/p][/quote]I am talking about the initial vote not the extension of powers. We all know that Blair fixed it in order to get a yes vote. It is a fact that most people in Wales voted against having an Assembly. Cymru Am Beth

3:29pm Tue 20 Nov 12

Cymru Am Beth says...

Llanmartinangel wrote:
D Taylor wrote:
Llanmartinangel wrote:
D Taylor wrote: What about all those Airbus wings, to quote one simple example.
5000 workers hardly makes a manufacturing base. The benefit bill alone in Wales is £9 Billion. There is no conceivable way of raising that sort of money in Wales, let alone the rest of government expenditure here.
If you looked at the English regions outside of the South East I expect you would find the same picture. We are all now dependent on London and the south east and the financial services industry and other service sectors which are based there. Anything that strengthens the regions ability to act independently and break the stranglehold the south east of England has on us is a good thing in my view.
You've been watching too much "Braveheart', which was another work of fantasy by the way. By 'stranglehold' do you mean 'generate the wealth that Wales relies on and can't generate for itself'? Under the last government, one third of all tax collected in the UK came from within the square mile. An entirely independent Wales would have no means of generating anything like enough money to pay it's own benefit bill, let alone health service, roads pensions etc. Yes, manufacturing and services are scattered around England but the difference is that they would still have them without having Wales and Scotland to bankroll. In short they would be massively richer and Wales bankrupt.
Agree entirely.
The facts speak for themselves.
If Wales did vote to be independent of England in the future, it would have to address all the issues that you have raised.
To my mind, we wouldn't have a 'cat in hells chance' of fulfilling what would be necessary to support ourselves.
We are a socialist state here in Wales.
dependent on benefits, low pay and subsidies from England.
That is the plain truth and the truth hurts.
[quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]D Taylor[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]D Taylor[/bold] wrote: What about all those Airbus wings, to quote one simple example.[/p][/quote]5000 workers hardly makes a manufacturing base. The benefit bill alone in Wales is £9 Billion. There is no conceivable way of raising that sort of money in Wales, let alone the rest of government expenditure here.[/p][/quote]If you looked at the English regions outside of the South East I expect you would find the same picture. We are all now dependent on London and the south east and the financial services industry and other service sectors which are based there. Anything that strengthens the regions ability to act independently and break the stranglehold the south east of England has on us is a good thing in my view.[/p][/quote]You've been watching too much "Braveheart', which was another work of fantasy by the way. By 'stranglehold' do you mean 'generate the wealth that Wales relies on and can't generate for itself'? Under the last government, one third of all tax collected in the UK came from within the square mile. An entirely independent Wales would have no means of generating anything like enough money to pay it's own benefit bill, let alone health service, roads pensions etc. Yes, manufacturing and services are scattered around England but the difference is that they would still have them without having Wales and Scotland to bankroll. In short they would be massively richer and Wales bankrupt.[/p][/quote]Agree entirely. The facts speak for themselves. If Wales did vote to be independent of England in the future, it would have to address all the issues that you have raised. To my mind, we wouldn't have a 'cat in hells chance' of fulfilling what would be necessary to support ourselves. We are a socialist state here in Wales. dependent on benefits, low pay and subsidies from England. That is the plain truth and the truth hurts. Cymru Am Beth

1:33am Wed 21 Nov 12

Howie' says...

Llanmartinangel wrote:
D Taylor wrote:
Llanmartinangel wrote:
D Taylor wrote:
What about all those Airbus wings, to quote one simple example.
5000 workers hardly makes a manufacturing base. The benefit bill alone in Wales is £9 Billion. There is no conceivable way of raising that sort of money in Wales, let alone the rest of government expenditure here.
If you looked at the English regions outside of the South East I expect you would find the same picture. We are all now dependent on London and the south east and the financial services industry and other service sectors which are based there. Anything that strengthens the regions ability to act independently and break the stranglehold the south east of England has on us is a good thing in my view.
You've been watching too much "Braveheart', which was another work of fantasy by the way. By 'stranglehold' do you mean 'generate the wealth that Wales relies on and can't generate for itself'? Under the last government, one third of all tax collected in the UK came from within the square mile. An entirely independent Wales would have no means of generating anything like enough money to pay it's own benefit bill, let alone health service, roads pensions etc. Yes, manufacturing and services are scattered around England but the difference is that they would still have them without having Wales and Scotland to bankroll. In short they would be massively richer and Wales bankrupt.
'Under the last government, one third of all tax collected in the UK came from within the square mile'.

No sorry, manufacturing, you know that thing we don't do any more, brought in twice as much from throughout the UK, including Wales.

From the early 1990s the City had sought to justify light-touch regulation and tax concessions by listing the many socio-economic benefits of finance … The most persistent of the City’s claims was that tax revenues from finance were a key source of funding for New Labour’s social programmes. But … over the 5 years from 2002 to 2007, tax receipts from finance totalled £153 billion and averaged just 6.7 per cent (hardly 33.3% is it?) of government receipts. In the same period, manufacturing employed many more workers, who all paid taxes under strict pay-as-you-earn (PAYE) rules, so that this sector actually delivered twice as much tax revenue for the exchequer. As the city delivers 6.7% of tax receipts that means 93.3% comes from other sources.
[quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]D Taylor[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]D Taylor[/bold] wrote: What about all those Airbus wings, to quote one simple example.[/p][/quote]5000 workers hardly makes a manufacturing base. The benefit bill alone in Wales is £9 Billion. There is no conceivable way of raising that sort of money in Wales, let alone the rest of government expenditure here.[/p][/quote]If you looked at the English regions outside of the South East I expect you would find the same picture. We are all now dependent on London and the south east and the financial services industry and other service sectors which are based there. Anything that strengthens the regions ability to act independently and break the stranglehold the south east of England has on us is a good thing in my view.[/p][/quote]You've been watching too much "Braveheart', which was another work of fantasy by the way. By 'stranglehold' do you mean 'generate the wealth that Wales relies on and can't generate for itself'? Under the last government, one third of all tax collected in the UK came from within the square mile. An entirely independent Wales would have no means of generating anything like enough money to pay it's own benefit bill, let alone health service, roads pensions etc. Yes, manufacturing and services are scattered around England but the difference is that they would still have them without having Wales and Scotland to bankroll. In short they would be massively richer and Wales bankrupt.[/p][/quote]'Under the last government, one third of all tax collected in the UK came from within the square mile'. No sorry, manufacturing, you know that thing we don't do any more, brought in twice as much from throughout the UK, including Wales. From the early 1990s the City had sought to justify light-touch regulation and tax concessions by listing the many socio-economic benefits of finance … The most persistent of the City’s claims was that tax revenues from finance were a key source of funding for New Labour’s social programmes. But … over the 5 years from 2002 to 2007, tax receipts from finance totalled £153 billion and averaged just 6.7 per cent (hardly 33.3% is it?) of government receipts. In the same period, manufacturing employed many more workers, who all paid taxes under strict pay-as-you-earn (PAYE) rules, so that this sector actually delivered twice as much tax revenue for the exchequer. As the city delivers 6.7% of tax receipts that means 93.3% comes from other sources. Howie'

10:19am Sun 25 Nov 12

Bobevans says...

Keep taking your tablets Howie. The City of London alone bought in 30% of the total taxes raised in the UK. Thats just the Square mile.

The long term plan is to phase out Barnet which is why the tax raising and borrowing powers are being given to Wales it is also why there will be no reform of Barnett

Even a 25% reduction in Barnett will be a major challange to Wales who exactly is it going to raise suffient revenues to offset the loss of 25% of Barnett?

To do so the Assembly would have to substantially raise taxes in Wales and cut benefits and services
Keep taking your tablets Howie. The City of London alone bought in 30% of the total taxes raised in the UK. Thats just the Square mile. The long term plan is to phase out Barnet which is why the tax raising and borrowing powers are being given to Wales it is also why there will be no reform of Barnett Even a 25% reduction in Barnett will be a major challange to Wales who exactly is it going to raise suffient revenues to offset the loss of 25% of Barnett? To do so the Assembly would have to substantially raise taxes in Wales and cut benefits and services Bobevans

10:20am Sun 25 Nov 12

Bobevans says...

Keep taking your tablets Howie. The City of London alone bought in 30% of the total taxes raised in the UK. Thats just the Square mile.

The long term plan is to phase out Barnet which is why the tax raising and borrowing powers are being given to Wales it is also why there will be no reform of Barnett

Even a 25% reduction in Barnett will be a major challange to Wales who exactly is it going to raise suffient revenues to offset the loss of 25% of Barnett?

To do so the Assembly would have to substantially raise taxes in Wales and cut benefits and services
Keep taking your tablets Howie. The City of London alone bought in 30% of the total taxes raised in the UK. Thats just the Square mile. The long term plan is to phase out Barnet which is why the tax raising and borrowing powers are being given to Wales it is also why there will be no reform of Barnett Even a 25% reduction in Barnett will be a major challange to Wales who exactly is it going to raise suffient revenues to offset the loss of 25% of Barnett? To do so the Assembly would have to substantially raise taxes in Wales and cut benefits and services Bobevans

10:34am Sun 25 Nov 12

Cymru Am Beth says...

Bobevans wrote:
Keep taking your tablets Howie. The City of London alone bought in 30% of the total taxes raised in the UK. Thats just the Square mile. The long term plan is to phase out Barnet which is why the tax raising and borrowing powers are being given to Wales it is also why there will be no reform of Barnett Even a 25% reduction in Barnett will be a major challange to Wales who exactly is it going to raise suffient revenues to offset the loss of 25% of Barnett? To do so the Assembly would have to substantially raise taxes in Wales and cut benefits and services
The fear of the Welsh Assembly being able to raise taxes, was the reason I voted against having a devolved goverment in Wales.
I agree entirely that the WAG would have to raise taxes substantially in order for us to be self-supporting.
The implications of this would be far reaching and I for one, would have to consider whether I would wish to remain here if this happened.
God forbid Plaid Cymru having a say in any of this.
They would probably want 98% top rate tax from anyone earning over £30.000.
The majority voting yes on here need to be careful what they wish for.
Although, if the majority are welfare benefit socialist voters, I expect they would be better off if Wales were to be able to raise its own tax.
[quote][p][bold]Bobevans[/bold] wrote: Keep taking your tablets Howie. The City of London alone bought in 30% of the total taxes raised in the UK. Thats just the Square mile. The long term plan is to phase out Barnet which is why the tax raising and borrowing powers are being given to Wales it is also why there will be no reform of Barnett Even a 25% reduction in Barnett will be a major challange to Wales who exactly is it going to raise suffient revenues to offset the loss of 25% of Barnett? To do so the Assembly would have to substantially raise taxes in Wales and cut benefits and services[/p][/quote]The fear of the Welsh Assembly being able to raise taxes, was the reason I voted against having a devolved goverment in Wales. I agree entirely that the WAG would have to raise taxes substantially in order for us to be self-supporting. The implications of this would be far reaching and I for one, would have to consider whether I would wish to remain here if this happened. God forbid Plaid Cymru having a say in any of this. They would probably want 98% top rate tax from anyone earning over £30.000. The majority voting yes on here need to be careful what they wish for. Although, if the majority are welfare benefit socialist voters, I expect they would be better off if Wales were to be able to raise its own tax. Cymru Am Beth

11:52am Sun 25 Nov 12

Llanmartinangel says...

Cymru Am Beth wrote:
Bobevans wrote: Keep taking your tablets Howie. The City of London alone bought in 30% of the total taxes raised in the UK. Thats just the Square mile. The long term plan is to phase out Barnet which is why the tax raising and borrowing powers are being given to Wales it is also why there will be no reform of Barnett Even a 25% reduction in Barnett will be a major challange to Wales who exactly is it going to raise suffient revenues to offset the loss of 25% of Barnett? To do so the Assembly would have to substantially raise taxes in Wales and cut benefits and services
The fear of the Welsh Assembly being able to raise taxes, was the reason I voted against having a devolved goverment in Wales. I agree entirely that the WAG would have to raise taxes substantially in order for us to be self-supporting. The implications of this would be far reaching and I for one, would have to consider whether I would wish to remain here if this happened. God forbid Plaid Cymru having a say in any of this. They would probably want 98% top rate tax from anyone earning over £30.000. The majority voting yes on here need to be careful what they wish for. Although, if the majority are welfare benefit socialist voters, I expect they would be better off if Wales were to be able to raise its own tax.
They'd be better off for a nano second. Once all those who actually work for a living could find more lucrative tax rates in England they'd be over the Severn Bridge. Then the WAG would have to explain to the hungry voters of a banana republic how to survive on grass and fresh air.
[quote][p][bold]Cymru Am Beth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Bobevans[/bold] wrote: Keep taking your tablets Howie. The City of London alone bought in 30% of the total taxes raised in the UK. Thats just the Square mile. The long term plan is to phase out Barnet which is why the tax raising and borrowing powers are being given to Wales it is also why there will be no reform of Barnett Even a 25% reduction in Barnett will be a major challange to Wales who exactly is it going to raise suffient revenues to offset the loss of 25% of Barnett? To do so the Assembly would have to substantially raise taxes in Wales and cut benefits and services[/p][/quote]The fear of the Welsh Assembly being able to raise taxes, was the reason I voted against having a devolved goverment in Wales. I agree entirely that the WAG would have to raise taxes substantially in order for us to be self-supporting. The implications of this would be far reaching and I for one, would have to consider whether I would wish to remain here if this happened. God forbid Plaid Cymru having a say in any of this. They would probably want 98% top rate tax from anyone earning over £30.000. The majority voting yes on here need to be careful what they wish for. Although, if the majority are welfare benefit socialist voters, I expect they would be better off if Wales were to be able to raise its own tax.[/p][/quote]They'd be better off for a nano second. Once all those who actually work for a living could find more lucrative tax rates in England they'd be over the Severn Bridge. Then the WAG would have to explain to the hungry voters of a banana republic how to survive on grass and fresh air. Llanmartinangel

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