Political sleaze or what?

I have just heard about this. How disgraceful. I voted for that jeff Rees to keep Labour out. He has betrayed me. I might as well have voted in Labour. They were BOUGHT - simple as. I applaud the others for sticking together and fighting for what we wanted, which was to stop Labour getting back in.
Those 5 should be ashamed of themselves. They have taken their monetary bribe, but rest assured, they have lost my respect and my future vote! Get those 3 Plaids & 2 Independents out!!! Disgraceful behaviour.

In answer to Robert's comment he may well have voted to get Labour out but others voted for the INDEPENDANT who's manifesto's stated "they are not part of a Group and do not have to tow the party line" unfortunately the majority of these joined with the Conservatives and Peoples Voice in a GROUP of 20 how Independant is this?

Is that "the" Rose Seabourne who lost her seat to an Independent. I have to say, your constant digging is starting to look like the ramblings of a woman scorned. Let it go. Your showing yourself up now. Its not nice or polite.

Gutless Plaid."Party of the people" .Change this to " fill my pocket with silver and I'll vote for any one".

Money talks.Independent Peter cathcart- is he Labour, Plaid or his bank balence. Come on Peter let us know?

The two Independent Councillors that supported Labour, have betrayed everyone that voted for them. they have lost the respect of everyone within the borough.

Torfaen peoples Coalition with continue to fight to end the rule of labour within the borough of Torfaen and restore democracy

I hope the two Independents and three plaids are ashamed of themselves. The rats will have to face the residents at surgerys. I would not like to be in their shoes over the coming weeks, but i would like to be a fly on the wall. You are ALL answerable to your residents!

What an insult to the people who voted .I cannot beleave they would do this and to take the money.I wounder if it would have been different if they did'nt offer the money?

Mrs R Seabourne wrote:
In answer to Robert\'s comment he may well have voted to get Labour out but others voted for the INDEPENDANT who\'s manifesto\'s stated \"they are not part of a Group and do not have to tow the party line\" unfortunately the majority of these joined with the Conservatives and Peoples Voice in a GROUP of 20 how Independant is this?

Speaking as a resident I welcomed them to form a united front in order to KEEP labour out. Nice distraction method though Mrs Seabourn of the real issue here. Which is Labour HAS lost the support and trust of the community. The scripture where Jesus was betrayed by one of own for 30 pieces of silver........

These 5 turncoat Councillors should be totally ashamed of themselves. They know about the huge issues we have faced here in Blaenavon. They have sold us down the river, just like the Labour party did. Quite fitting that they sold us out by tunring their backs on us in favour of the Labour Party. It stinks!!!
Their Residents should call a meeting and have a Vote of No Confidence in them. Get them out & get someone in who WILL do their job without stabbing us people in the back.
There is, of course, the little known Constitution jewel that says if more than 10% of the residents in Torfaen sign a petition, a referendum could be called. The referendum could be to hold 5 ward elections that are currently held by these snakes.
Think on people. I will support a petition of this kind if someone younger & fitter could organise it.

concerned resident wrote:
These 5 turncoat Councillors should be totally ashamed of themselves. They know about the huge issues we have faced here in Blaenavon. They have sold us down the river, just like the Labour party did. Quite fitting that they sold us out by tunring their backs on us in favour of the Labour Party. It stinks!!! Their Residents should call a meeting and have a Vote of No Confidence in them. Get them out & get someone in who WILL do their job without stabbing us people in the back. There is, of course, the little known Constitution jewel that says if more than 10% of the residents in Torfaen sign a petition, a referendum could be called. The referendum could be to hold 5 ward elections that are currently held by these snakes. Think on people. I will support a petition of this kind if someone younger & fitter could organise it.

I totally agree with you. If what you say is correct i am sure there will be more than 10% who would sign for a vote of no confidence, for a re vote in those wards. I think we should contact the others too put the request to them. I am sure they will be more than happy to help.

Im up 4 that. get the snakes out i say. we need to get the ball rollin.

"People not Politics" - but not here in Torfaen.
Once again money talks, and obviously much louder than the wishes of many of the residents of this Borough, who voted for a long overdue change of power in the local elections. But we have been betrayed by 5, Plaid & Independents, who have thrown their lot in with Labour and consequently have lost the trust and support of all their residents.

May 22nd was a very sad & dissapointing time for Torfaen.

GET THEM OUT -CALL THEM TO A PUBLIC MEETING NOW? MAKE THEM ACCOUNTABLE LET THEM EXPLAIN THEMSELVES.

Mrs R Seabourne wrote:
In answer to Robert's comment he may well have voted to get Labour out but others voted for the INDEPENDANT who's manifesto's stated "they are not part of a Group and do not have to tow the party line" unfortunately the majority of these joined with the Conservatives and Peoples Voice in a GROUP of 20 how Independant is this?

And the woman wonders why she was voted out.
"sigh"

I applaud the INDEPENDENTS(correct spelling) who tried to form a group to lead TBC forward. They are to be praised for their actions, not set upon by a woman who has a personal grudge, who is old enough to know better, and one that forgets she was once a new person to Politics too.
TBC has been run by the ageing Labour Party for too long.

As for those wastes of space Plaids and the two Independents, well, the people will let them know how they feel about these Traitors. If not now, in 4 years time. People have long memories remember.

MRS G..EVANS wrote:
GET THEM OUT -CALL THEM TO A PUBLIC MEETING NOW? MAKE THEM ACCOUNTABLE LET THEM EXPLAIN THEMSELVES.

I agree Mrs Evans.
Someone please organise a public meeting and demand their attendance to explain their actions . Let them promise to stand down should the people decide that their excuse is pathetic. Actually, if you read this you 5, do the decent thing and relinquish your wards. If you have 1 decent thread in you, take heed of these words. You have done wrong by us and you should stand up and be counted.

I can only say how dissapointed and betrayed we are feeling right now. I can only imagine how the residents who voted those people in are feeling. I appreciate all your comments and support and I can assure you, like my fellow Councillor Wildgust previously mentioned we will continue to fight to end the rule of labour within the borough of Torfaen and restore democracy. I will be investigating all the above suggestions to see if anything can be done. Thank you

I can only say how dissapointed and betrayed we are feeling right now. I can only imagine how the residents who voted those people in are feeling. I appreciate all your comments and support and I can assure you, like my fellow Councillor Wildgust previously mentioned we will continue to fight to end the rule of labour within the borough of Torfaen and restore democracy. I will be investigating all the above suggestions to see if anything can be done. Thank you

Dear all, if you want to take action. I refer all of you to the TCBC constitution section 2.2.1. It can be found on the Council website. It states that if 10% of torfaens residents sign a recognised petition they have the right to demand a referendum on the constitutional change sought by those signing the petition.

I would support this action

All contact details for Councillors are to be found on the TCBC website..... As residents of Torfaen you well within your right to contact your local councillor and express your views and feelings..

We have all been sold down the Afon Lwyd. For 12 years we have been told what we are going to have, what we cant have and not told that that a building is to disappear overnight so we cant object! We need some new blood and not the same old (and some of them are VERY old!)out-of-touch labourites who think they have divine right to rule over us!

I would like to suggest to all residents of Torfaen. The most effective way of fighting back would be to secure a constitutional change that ensures the Cabinet and all other posts within the Council are proportionally represented by all parties. That means labour would only hold a few cabinet seats and as such not control the council. Democracy would rule in torfaen and as such the councillors that betrayed thier constituents would be powerless.

that would require enactment of section 2.2.1 of the constitution.

I may be living in London, but I still take a biginterest what is going on at home, this has got me so angry.You all have to get motivated about this,raise petitons,march on County Hall, bworbeat, pester and demonstrate at council meetings, events, get the 10% you need to call a referendum and get rid of the cabinet style of governace that rubber stamps descions without debate and the public to have a voice.. This is so wrong on all counts.Bob Wellington and his cronies need to go. My grandmother was right about him all those years ago. There used to be a time when you went into local government to due public service and help your fellow man,now its all self self self, and I dont know of any other councillor (bingo bob)who gives up their job to become a full time councillor,must have a very good expense account,which like the wasters in Parliment, we pay for!!! I hope this farce is sorted out. Be like the French, fight for what is right. We should no longer just scream into the wind, its time to be heard

What a con the Plaid and the 2 Independents pulled on the people of Cwmbran!! and all for money in their pockets. How can they face the honest people who voted for them.This is disgusting politics and we certainly do not need such awful traitors to the people that had such faith to vote for them. Get them out.

I am the chair of 'Peoples Voice Torfaen' which was set up two years ago to bring Honesty,Integrity and public participation into Public and Political life.
Has I sat in the public gallery on Thursday and watched all those principles discarded I felt sick in the pit of my stomach. The people of Torfaen have 'without doubt' been taken for a ride, just as we have for the past 20 odd years. But there again "all is not lost" we will now mount a campaign that will cause such embarrasment to those who are the guilty ones they will realise that they have made a serious blunder, one that will ensure that they will never win another election in this borough.
I make this plea to them now," you have a chance to reverse your decisions and support the people who elected you" you know the ones I mean, the ones who voted to get labour out.Think about it!!
We support Cllr Wildgust in his bid to change the constitution.
If you wish to help us contact me on W275@aol.com

Valerie wrote:
What a con the Plaid and the 2 Independents pulled on the people of Cwmbran!! and all for money in their pockets. How can they face the honest people who voted for them.This is disgusting politics and we certainly do not need such awful traitors to the people that had such faith to vote for them. Get them out.

I guess this definately teaches us to know exactly who we are voting for in the future.

This proves to me that if you vote Plaid you may end up with Labour, and if you vote independent ensure that you know them very well.

At least with Conservative, Peoples Voice and Lib Dems you know what to expect, and that is very likely to be a Rainbow Coalition, a much more democratic result.

Mrs R Seabourne wrote:
In answer to Robert's comment he may well have voted to get Labour out but others voted for the INDEPENDANT who's manifesto's stated "they are not part of a Group and do not have to tow the party line" unfortunately the majority of these joined with the Conservatives and Peoples Voice in a GROUP of 20 how Independant is this?

No offence Mrs Rose Seabourne (Ex Labour Cabinet Member), I just thought I would explain to you that the opposition group appears to have formed a Rainbow Coalition as the opposition party.

This is a well known and very democratic way of running or opposing an elected body through negotiation, compromise and teamwork enabling them to work together as a group.

I understand that you may not have encountered these principles or techniques within the previous councils that were and still appear to be a Labour dictatorship.

We can change things, all we need is the will.

Bad reporting. Scrutiny chairs get £5000 not £18,000. Don't think rainbow councillors have enough experience to run council. Hope all parties support petition though, it will be good for democracy

Council allowence I think £13000+scrutiny what ever that is £5000 = £18000.
Ask Pliad they worked this one out for themselves.No dou't

welshboyo wrote:
Bad reporting. Scrutiny chairs get £5000 not £18,000. Don't think rainbow councillors have enough experience to run council. Hope all parties support petition though, it will be good for democracy

With-in that Rainbow coalition there are some very experienced councillors who could easily run the council. The combined council experience within the Rainbow group is about 50yrs plus. The Rainbow Coalition needs our support now. They are not the ones who let us down. Labour & those individuals did.

I'm just wondering how much experience the newly elected Plaid councillors have if they are running scrutinising committees. Also, don't forget Bob bought these people with our money raied through the council tax.

This is what Torfaen's constituion actually says.

If more than 10% of electors on the Electoral Register sign a petition that complies
with regulations published under the Local Government Act 2000, the Council must
hold a referendum on the constitutional change sought by those signing the petition.
The types of changes include a change to having an Elected Mayor. There are
detailed technical requirements to be complied with for a petition to be valid.

Does anyone know which bits of the local government act Torfaen are referring to? Does anyone know if there is a petition on the go?

I pledge to the residents of Torfaen, that I will work hard to deliver true democracy within the Borough. I will meet with the monitoring officer early next week and ensure that all legal aspects of the petition are met. then People Voice and I will work with other willing coalition members to secure the signatures required to demand a referendum on proportional represenatation on cabinet and all other Council committees. We require about 5000 signatures in total.

So if you want to join the campaign, your assistance is welcome and necessary. Email me your contact details and we will start the process. Bob wellington is not used to fighters, he wont know how to cope when the people rise up and demand true democracy.

Join the fight, tell your friends... lets start in the five wards where the residents of torfaen where betrayed by Plaid and the two other independents.

Call me on 01495 753111 or email me fred.wildgust@virgin
.net

Sick and disappointed. Torfaen Council under Labour have been accused of being corrupt for years, selling out to Tesco etal. Do Cunningham, Wellington, Marshal have any deceny or does that cost too much?
A change was voted for but money talks shame on the newbies for their greed over ethics.

Money is a very persuasive weapon. who would have thought corruption would be so inherent in our 'democratic' system of governance. Shame, shame, shame.
I support this campaign fully to the end.

Another Labour gravy train is coming, all abord.

Read Alastair Cunnington's website - his views on his General page certainly do not match the comments as printed in your report above.... I paste some here ----

Thank you to everyone that voted for me on yesterday and to everyone that helped me.
It was clear from the number of votes cast that Two Locks & Henllys were fed up with the existing regime and I am grateful to everyone that voted, for giving me the chance to represent them. ----fed up with the existing regime - he recognised that but then lines his own pocket to sustain the 'regime' as he puts it.

Politics is a dirty game as he and his fellow turncoats Graham, Rees etc will no doubt find out.


He and the others who have now joined the Labour Councillors who the voters wanted out of office should do the decent thing and resign


Mr Cunnington (I didn't put Councillor because hopefully he won'y be one for long) also writes - - - -


I am a thinking person, I am not a puppet. At present you have a local authority where the greater number of the council members belong to the same party, in this case Labour ( and to be fair the same would apply to which ever political party had such a majority) - this means that all decisions will be made virtually unchallenged and I’m not happy about that…are you?- (…and yes without doubt, I speak as a disgruntled ex-Labour councillor !) - - - - -


Not a puppet eh?

Pinnochio springs to mind - perhaps we should see an up to date photo of

visit his website if you want to read another Disney fairy tale

http://www.cunningto
n.eu/2008/04/

....Carrying on from the stetement above he said. Time for change new blood new ideas.You have a local authority where the grater number of the council memebers belong to the sme party ,in the case Labour.I won't be gagged.

I would be grateful for your vote. Is this the same person Cunnington the councillor or does he have a split personality or his he completely mad? Maybe he thinks his residents are who voted for him.

Cllr Connington is not mad he is a very clever man. But his decision he has to live with and confront on a daily basis. I encourage all residents in his ward that voted for him to contact him and express your view. He is your elected member and its your right.

welshboyo wrote:
Bad reporting. Scrutiny chairs get £5000 not £18,000. Don't think rainbow councillors have enough experience to run council. Hope all parties support petition though, it will be good for democracy

To put the record striaght.
All Councillors get just over £12,000 basic allowance a year. Jeff Rees, Alistair Cunnington & Peter Cathcart have been given CHAIRS on Scrutiny Committees which have an EXTRA pay of just over £8,000. The two female PLAIDS have chairs on other committees which is an Extra £5,000. So the 3 men will now earn £20,000+, the 2 women £18,000+

Rainbow Coalition members have more than 50 years experience between them. Labour probably have 250 years. Its obvious to me that their vast experience has not made them good at the job. Fresh ideas & input is what Torfaen now needs.
Lets fight this with everything we have. Lets wait and see what the Rainbow Coalition does in the next week. Surely they will not let this lie & will make a statement?

Mr (not worthy of the title Councillor) Cunnington writes on his website--------


"I am a thinking person, I am not a puppet. At present you have a local authority where the greater number of the council members belong to the same party, in this case Labour ( and to be fair the same would apply to which ever political party had such a majority) - this means that all decisions will be made virtually unchallenged and I’m not happy about that…are you?- (…and yes without doubt, I speak as a disgruntled ex-Labour councillor !)"




Not a puppet eh?



Pinnochio springs to mind - perhaps we should see an up to date photo of Mr Cunnington to see if his nose has grown.

THE FAMOUS FIVE .

quoteThe Famous Five are a group of children who have the sort of adventures most kids dream about, in a world where ginger beer flows and ham rolls are a staple diet.Jeff Rees, Maria Graham and Fiona Cross get together with their cousin's Peter Cathcart and Alastair Cunningham in the first adventure, Five On A Treasure Island.

And that is how i sum the minds of these people, these people who used the peoples vote to get what they allways dreamed of, high paid jobs with the tax payers money!!
The people should start a petition and get these dreamers out!

Dear all, currently members of the coalition are working on the interpretation of the constitution. We will be seeking legal advice and professional direction early next week. I personally feel that the statement is clear if you have 10% of electorate sign a suitable petition, they can demand a referendum on a given point of constitutional change. We cannot demand that the famous five resign thier seats, that would not be democratic. But perhaps with sufficient pressure from within the famous fives wards, they may have to review thier position.

the three Plaid Cymru councillors have done untold damage to their national parties reputation In the forthcoming general election I cant see any torfaen resident voting for them. The trust is gone

I never expected much from the two Independent Cll's but for but one would have thought that "The Party of Wails"(sic) would have had more political nous. They have simply put away any chance of winning an election in Torfaen, and if as my contacts in other constituencies tell me little chance in South Wales. It always was their way to provide different messages to different parts of Wales.
They can still redeem themselves,"let sinners repent".

30 pieces of silver, 5 boys, pinnochio, you scratch my back etc., all seem applicable to the goings on at the Pontypool Palace. It makes one wonder what renumeration is available for cabinet posts"?All power to Concillor Wildgust in his efforts for the return of democracy.

Mrs R Seabourne wrote:
In answer to Robert's comment he may well have voted to get Labour out but others voted for the INDEPENDANT who's manifesto's stated "they are not part of a Group and do not have to tow the party line" unfortunately the majority of these joined with the Conservatives and Peoples Voice in a GROUP of 20 how Independant is this?

its 21 and you spell it Independent

I am being asked to provide email addresses and other contact details for the famous five. I am afraid make any information available that has not been in the public domain. I believe Bob Wellington would get me for being in breach of the code of conduct, very serious offence... especially if they want to shut me up.
What I do have that I am happy to share are two mobile telephone numbers that the council recently posted on their website and then updated later, so its now public information.

Jeff (Plaid Cymru) 07517467262. He is the leader of the group.

Fiona (Plaid Cymru) 0788185553. Very young had to do as she was told by Jeff and towed the party line..

Sadly, I dont have the third number.

Other telephone numbers and home addresses can be found at the TCBC web-site

Remember, the famous five will eventually have to crawl out of their bolt holes and start to face their constituents..

Peoples Voice have pledged their support to the raising of a section 2.2.1 petition campaign, for that im very grateful. People are emailing me and offering personal support in delivery, production of leaflets and canvassing. This makes me very proud that people are willing to step up and be counted.

If your angry about how the famous five have behaved, contact me and offer to help.

fred.wildgust@virgin
.net

telephone 01495 753111

is there anyway we can demand a revote in those wards. we don't want them being our councillors. surly there is a way to revote. I will do wotever that takes.

Raise the petition

Demand another vote

20000 signatures across the borough easily

BOOT WELLINGTON

Blaenavon ousted Labour completely the rest of the borough tried to but have been badly betrayed - bet the famous five are looking forward to first surgery !

only 4-5000 signatures will be required, but first we need legal advice to know its possible.

Cllr cunnington has informed me he does not intend to hold surgeries...

make of that what you will...

I am from cwmbran ,, I now live in canada, this is one of the reasons I left,, political corruption. the worst thing of all though is that I am not at all supprised. Its lying plain and simple .

Cunnington and cathcart and Plaid the famous five, Should hide away from public view .Because if they don't they will feel the force of the people behind them.Trators.

Indeed we need to make a stand and keep this alive. The famous five are hoping this will be forgotten like the typical british tend to do. Let me reassure you that this betrayal will NOT be laid to rest. We will not stop until a satisfactory outcome. Lets not take our focus from Labour though who whilst we are focusing on the Famous Five, they are as much responsible, if not more!

I am from Ontario Canada and have lived here 26 years. I voted Independant because Labour are not Democratic in Torfaen. This town has been rundown slowy by a corrupt self-serving Council who when challenged dismiss all criticism and hold no accountability. Greasy palms and sloped shoulders, yes you Bingo Bob, and your band of duplicitous cronies. Now you have added 5 more names to your list of disliked non trustworthy greasy politicians. Go on people of Torfaen, make us proud, protest, hold placards outside the Pontypool Palace, phone your Cllr. make an online complaint on the TCBC website, contact the monitoring officer- GET out there and do it now!!!!!

this is typical of local labour cant get in by the honest way, so we'll give u a small fee if u back us well thank you now we'll get a nice open prison u stupid lot!!!!

What we need to keep in mind is that money has exchanged hands here, posts have been promised, essentially bribes have been made. Legally or not this is MORALLY REPREHENSIBLE. bold

This looks very bad not only for the Turncoats but indeed for The Leader of the Council and all the others who orchestrated this unholy union.

welshboyo wrote:
Bad reporting. Scrutiny chairs get £5000 not £18,000. Don\'t think rainbow councillors have enough experience to run council. Hope all parties support petition though, it will be good for democracy

Not quite right but near enough. ALL councillors will recieve over £12,000 and scrutiny chairs get £8,000 extra tops. Scrutiny chairs are shadow cabinate. They all get something from our votes and you're daft if you think otherwise. They all have their own agendas too exspecially when diffrent groups form a coalition. I understand that there isn't a coalition between Plaid Cymru and Labour just an agreement to support Labour at the meeting to vote in a leader of Torfaen? Is this correct? Still a shame that labour are still in.

I think it works like this you vote for me Bob Wellington and give me your vote on the night and I will give you a job with a nice little pick up.To keep the rest out.Plus also vote for Mayor ,deputy mayor and cabinet.A nice little pribe.

fairsaytoday cabinet get 13,000 plus wages chairs get 5,000 to 8,000 plus their pay of 12,000 and I think it is wrong to get that much plus their expences on top of that. I think it is disgusting that five people were trusted to be voted in to get labour out, then behind the voters back sided with labour because they were promised seats with big money.How on earth can you five look the people in the face? I know I could never do such a filthy thing to those lovely people who put their hearts in you to get labour out.
I would never go to anyone of those five traiters for help if you got problems in your wards go to a trusted coalition councillor, please turn your backs on them like they did with you.
I hope the people out there will remember this and never ever vote Plaid cymru and make sure you find out about the independent candidates before voting.It is always better to vote who you know and who live in the area.
You dirty cheaters should give up your seats but I know you will not do that you care more about your dirty money than the lovely people who trusted you. how can you hold your heads up and look them in the face. you will never get back in voters will remember you so make the most of the four years. please please people remember if they done the dirty on you this time they will do it again a leopard never changes his spots.

Please lets get this petition going, you will have full support from Blaenavon, this man BOB needs to get the BOOT, and his cronies, he is a BULLY!!!
What he done to our pool was disgusting, we will not stop fighting, so lets show them, they need to listen to the people....

Dear all, the press are very interested... Read the argus tommorrow and the Pontypool Freepress on wednesday.... they cant believe the level of interest and feedback the website has attracted.

here is my message to Bob Wellington, ask the famous five to resign their chairs immeediately And show the people of torfaen you are a leader and not a waster....

Dear all, the press are very interested... Read the argus tommorrow and the Pontypool Freepress on wednesday.... they cant believe the level of interest and feedback the website has attracted.

here is my message to Bob Wellington, ask the famous five to resign their chairs immeediately And show the people of torfaen you are a leader and not a waster....

Cllr Fred Wildgust wrote:
only 4-5000 signatures will be required, but first we need legal advice to know its possible. Cllr cunnington has informed me he does not intend to hold surgeries... make of that what you will...

Would you????

Claire Higgins wrote:

Mrs R Seabourne wrote: In answer to Robert\\\'s comment he may well have voted to get Labour out but others voted for the INDEPENDANT who\\\'s manifesto\\\'s stated \\\"they are not part of a Group and do not have to tow the party line\\\" unfortunately the majority of these joined with the Conservatives and Peoples Voice in a GROUP of 20 how Independant is this?

No offence Mrs Rose Seabourne (Ex Labour Cabinet Member), I just thought I would explain to you that the opposition group appears to have formed a Rainbow Coalition as the opposition party. This is a well known and very democratic way of running or opposing an elected body through negotiation, compromise and teamwork enabling them to work together as a group. I understand that you may not have encountered these principles or techniques within the previous councils that were and still appear to be a Labour dictatorship.

Here, here Claire. Sadly, there was a time when the words Labour and Dictatorship would have seemed totally ridiculous. What an unfortunate sign of the times: the word Dictatorship now totally sums up how the Labour Party is now acting. Nye Bevan is probably turning in his grave right now! Bring on the petition so it can be signed, sealed and delivered...the deliverance of the death knell of the Labour Coalition.

as I said B4

BOOT WELLINGTON

sally-cwmbran wrote:
fairsaytoday cabinet get 13,000 plus wages chairs get 5,000 to 8,000 plus their pay of 12,000 and I think it is wrong to get that much plus their expences on top of that. I think it is disgusting that five people were trusted to be voted in to get labour out, then behind the voters back sided with labour because they were promised seats with big money.How on earth can you five look the people in the face? I know I could never do such a filthy thing to those lovely people who put their hearts in you to get labour out. I would never go to anyone of those five traiters for help if you got problems in your wards go to a trusted coalition councillor, please turn your backs on them like they did with you. I hope the people out there will remember this and never ever vote Plaid cymru and make sure you find out about the independent candidates before voting.It is always better to vote who you know and who live in the area. You dirty cheaters should give up your seats but I know you will not do that you care more about your dirty money than the lovely people who trusted you. how can you hold your heads up and look them in the face. you will never get back in voters will remember you so make the most of the four years. please please people remember if they done the dirty on you this time they will do it again a leopard never changes his spots.

dear all I understand sally's view about not going to the famous five with a problem.... But you must cause them as much work as possible. otherwise they will get paid for doing nothing and we wouldnt want that would we...

I suggest that the famous five are forced to hold surgeries and the electorate take lots and lots of issues to them.

From my angle the 2 choices are poor.

Alternative,a Mixed bunch of bob rag,tag and misfits.
With this bunch of misfits,ex labour etc, I THINK THEY WOULD BE AS BAD AS LABOUR.

Did you know there's a new Famous Five book out? "Five Visit the Dole Queue" Read how the evil dictator had aims for manipulation and control but was stopped in his tracks by ...

Will YOU sign and stop the evil one? COME ON PEOPLE, LET'S PUT A STOP TO THIS. As Wildgust put it, they don't know how to cope with people standing up to them

Did you know there's a new Famous Five book out? "Five Visit the Dole Queue" Read how the evil dictator had aims for manipulation and control but was stopped in his tracks by ...

Will YOU sign and stop the evil one? COME ON PEOPLE, LET'S PUT A STOP TO THIS. As Wildgust put it, they don't know how to cope with people standing up to them

quote

From my angle the 2 choices are poor.

Alternative,a Mixed bunch of bob rag,tag and misfits.
With this bunch of misfits,ex labour etc, I THINK THEY WOULD BE AS BAD AS LABOUR.

Sir, democratically your comments re welcome. But you miss the point. the peoples have had enough of a council they believe to be self-serving and unaccountable. For instance parking permits given to certain residents in Pontypool town centre to park illegally because of who they know on the coucil; a town centre run down with dilapitated bulidings, knee deep litter along St James Church that has not been picked up in over 5 years; a park given 800k by the HLF for restoration that has maybe had only 10k spent on it. The list is endless. We want Labour out and a fresh start with different Cllrs. If they mess up, they will be voted out as well. It is not rocket science, it is DEMOCRACY.

I am so pleased to see the people fighting back! At last......people who will not just lie down & take this anymore. Its refreshing to see. I applaud you fighters and promise my support 100%.
They were hoping that we were going to do the great British thing of lie down & take it all, but we are NOT.
I suspect the 5 think it will all blow over in a few weeks. WRONG. I know I will personally be writing to these 5 Traitors weekly to remind them of their sin against Torfaen residents. They obviously dont care what people want.....instead choosing money over people.
you five.....if you read this.......do 1 decent thing and stand down. Your not wanted here, you'll never be liked or trusted again and no one will support you (except Labour, who will probably stab you in the back too).
Stand down. Its your only real choice.

Fiona Cross (plaid Cymru) is reported to have said to an independent councillor that Plaid are not worried about supporting labour. As people will have forgotten about it in a couple of weeks... If this is true, they are so mistaken

Inspector wrote:
From my angle the 2 choices are poor.

Alternative,a Mixed bunch of bob rag,tag and misfits.
With this bunch of misfits,ex labour etc, I THINK THEY WOULD BE AS BAD AS LABOUR.

Have you met us? Do you know our objectives?Have you spoken to any of TPC? I welcome all comments however they are valid if backed with evidence, not assumptions. The people of Torfaen have spoken-they want labour out.

you guys over there cannot left this go , for to long every british government has worked on the assumption that britain is a fractured society with no combined back bone, no other country in the world would allow this to happen with out a fight,, they think it will be like the fuel protest that cae and went and once they had conviced every one that people would ie if the protest didn't stop ,, what did they do ?? they increased duty on fuel DONT LET THIS GO THEY TEAT ORDINARY PEOPLE LIKE IDIOTS !! FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT YOU OW IT TO YOUR COMMUNITY !!! YES COMMUNITY ..

Cllr fred wildgust wrote:
Fiona Cross (plaid Cymru) is reported to have said to an independent councillor that Plaid are not worried about supporting labour. As people will have forgotten about it in a couple of weeks... If this is true, they are so mistaken

Speak to the Free Press Fred and you will find out that was the leaders quote.
As a Blue i want Labour out but the alternative judging by the comments read is not much better....

quote

Cllr Wildgust wrote:

sally-cwmbran wrote: fairsaytoday cabinet get 13,000 plus wages chairs get 5,000 to 8,000 plus their pay of 12,000 and I think it is wrong to get that much plus their expences on top of that. I think it is disgusting that five people were trusted to be voted in to get labour out, then behind the voters back sided with labour because they were promised seats with big money.How on earth can you five look the people in the face? I know I could never do such a filthy thing to those lovely people who put their hearts in you to get labour out. I would never go to anyone of those five traiters for help if you got problems in your wards go to a trusted coalition councillor, please turn your backs on them like they did with you. I hope the people out there will remember this and never ever vote Plaid cymru and make sure you find out about the independent candidates before voting.It is always better to vote who you know and who live in the area. You dirty cheaters should give up your seats but I know you will not do that you care more about your dirty money than the lovely people who trusted you. how can you hold your heads up and look them in the face. you will never get back in voters will remember you so make the most of the four years. please please people remember if they done the dirty on you this time they will do it again a leopard never changes his spots.

dear all I understand sally\'s view about not going to the famous five with a problem.... But you must cause them as much work as possible. otherwise they will get paid for doing nothing and we wouldnt want that would we... I suggest that the famous five are forced to hold surgeries and the electorate take lots and lots of issues to them.

Sally i voted labour out of my ward and there out.

i will take my problems to my Plaid Cllr and if a good job is done i will vote them back in 4 years.

quote

oCllr fred wildgust wrote:
I am being asked to provide email addresses and other contact details for the famous five. I am afraid make any information available that has not been in the public domain. I believe Bob Wellington would get me for being in breach of the code of conduct, very serious offence... especially if they want to shut me up. What I do have that I am happy to share are two mobile telephone numbers that the council recently posted on their website and then updated later, so its now public information. Jeff (Plaid Cymru) 07517467262. He is the leader of the group. Fiona (Plaid Cymru) 0788185553. Very young had to do as she was told by Jeff and towed the party line.. Sadly, I dont have the third number. Other telephone numbers and home addresses can be found at the TCBC web-site Remember, the famous five will eventually have to crawl out of their bolt holes and start to face their constituents..

CLLR. very interested in this quote"Fiona (Plaid Cymru) Very young had to do as she was told by Jeff and towed the party line.."
Please explain...is this the same with Maria Graham?

cllr catherine lewis wrote:

Inspector wrote: From my angle the 2 choices are poor. Alternative,a Mixed bunch of bob rag,tag and misfits. With this bunch of misfits,ex labour etc, I THINK THEY WOULD BE AS BAD AS LABOUR.

Have you met us? Do you know our objectives?Have you spoken to any of TPC? I welcome all comments however they are valid if backed with evidence, not assumptions. The people of Torfaen have spoken-they want labour out.

What I do know about you, TPC, is that you get something out of this. £12,000 plus a year. Does no one see that you haven't done this out of the goodness in your hearts. Why don't you give up all your wages and perks?

This all seems a bit silly. I thought that you were going to help us little people in the wards that you were voted in to. I don't care who's in charge but in my view this does damage to the whole council. The Rainbow gang weren't voted in and all they can do is use their energy to harm the famous five. I'm sure Labour is loving this. Is it me or is that totally counter productive? You all have to work together for us!!! You have made promises to your wards and they didn't involve waging war. I know when I spoke to my new councillor I asked that the road be fixed at the top of my road. Right now I don't see any of you bothering about us little people. It seems like sour grapes. I wonder how much money they would have all been on had they been the controlling group? Now stop whinging and get on fix my road!

This all seems a bit silly. I thought that you were going to help us little people in the wards that you were voted in to. I don't care who's in charge but in my view this does damage to the whole council. The Rainbow gang weren't voted in and all they can do is use their energy to harm the famous five. I'm sure Labour is loving this. Is it me or is that totally counter productive? You all have to work together for us!!! You have made promises to your wards and they didn't involve waging war. I know when I spoke to my new councillor I asked that the road be fixed at the top of my road. Right now I don't see any of you bothering about us little people. It seems like sour grapes. I wonder how much money they would have all been on had they been the controlling group? Now stop whinging and get on fix my road!

Mr Phelps wrote:
This all seems a bit silly. I thought that you were going to help us little people in the wards that you were voted in to. I don\'t care who\'s in charge but in my view this does damage to the whole council. The Rainbow gang weren\'t voted in and all they can do is use their energy to harm the famous five. I\'m sure Labour is loving this. Is it me or is that totally counter productive? You all have to work together for us!!! You have made promises to your wards and they didn\'t involve waging war. I know when I spoke to my new councillor I asked that the road be fixed at the top of my road. Right now I don\'t see any of you bothering about us little people. It seems like sour grapes. I wonder how much money they would have all been on had they been the controlling group? Now stop whinging and get on fix my road!

AT LAST a voice of reason.So this is whats happens when the TPC dont get their own way.I dont want Labour in but for now they are.But is this what i have to expect,fighting within the council.If so lets vote you all out and start again.

Your slipping away from the REAL ISSUE here. BETRAYAL,from PLAID and 2 independents & Labour! Noone else!!

Labour has had enough chances and blown it and this slimey episode confirms everything.

Get them out and get TPC in!

Steven lets hope the Cllr put as much effort into the wards as they are on this debate.Besides Lib Dem and Torries i dont think so.

Tho I can understand everyone's bitter dissapointment over this election aka 'The great Escape' (myself included-very bitterly dissapointed) Plaid Councillors did not sell out. They were approached by all parties and listened to both sets of arguments. The Indepemndants could not agree between themselves (hence the 2 siding with Labour) and 1 councillor not turning up to vote even. Plaid Councillors were then left in a quandry as what to do they decided rightly or wrongly to vote labour back in to give stability to the people of Torfaen. I have stated to the Councillors concermned by email in my opinion this was a bad decision. They freely admitted in their replies it was the best of a bad deal BUT THEY ARE NOT in with the Labour Group but decided to agree on this occassion. My view is to hear all sides of the arguments and not swallow dissappointed bitter comments from people who could come to agreement

Mr Phelps wrote:
This all seems a bit silly. I thought that you were going to help us little people in the wards that you were voted in to. I don't care who's in charge but in my view this does damage to the whole council. The Rainbow gang weren't voted in and all they can do is use their energy to harm the famous five. I'm sure Labour is loving this. Is it me or is that totally counter productive? You all have to work together for us!!! You have made promises to your wards and they didn't involve waging war. I know when I spoke to my new councillor I asked that the road be fixed at the top of my road. Right now I don't see any of you bothering about us little people. It seems like sour grapes. I wonder how much money they would have all been on had they been the controlling group? Now stop whinging and get on fix my road!

Report your road issue to your local councillor, at surgery,that is what they are there for.

My NEW councillor has been more than helpfull.

Terrance Martin wrote:
Tho I can understand everyone's bitter dissapointment over this election aka 'The great Escape' (myself included-very bitterly dissapointed) Plaid Councillors did not sell out. They were approached by all parties and listened to both sets of arguments. The Indepemndants could not agree between themselves (hence the 2 siding with Labour) and 1 councillor not turning up to vote even. Plaid Councillors were then left in a quandry as what to do they decided rightly or wrongly to vote labour back in to give stability to the people of Torfaen. I have stated to the Councillors concermned by email in my opinion this was a bad decision. They freely admitted in their replies it was the best of a bad deal BUT THEY ARE NOT in with the Labour Group but decided to agree on this occassion. My view is to hear all sides of the arguments and not swallow dissappointed bitter comments from people who could come to agreement

Let me put a few things straight here.

The Independant did not fail to turn up, he was on holiday with his family.

The Independant group was and are united in what we organised. I am sorry Mr Terrance you have been given selective information. Plaid & the two independents voted WITH LABOUR on ALL aspects in the AGM, and as a result * QUOTE* got rewarded with PAID POSITIONS.

I feel the evidence speaks for itself.

Forward on from here TPC remain united and will continue to serve the people of our ward and the people of Torfaen. Kind Regards.

Inspector wrote:
From my angle the 2 choices are poor. Alternative,a Mixed bunch of bob rag,tag and misfits. With this bunch of misfits,ex labour etc, I THINK THEY WOULD BE AS BAD AS LABOUR.

What a load of nonsense!!
You do not know these people.
I find your remarks offensive, without the moral courage to place your name to it.

As for as im concerned the famous five betrayed the people that voted for them. The electorate voted for an alternative to labour and then what did the famous five do... The supported labour. If people think that the actions taken by myself and others is simply sour grapes, trust me it isnt; its about democracy and and the peoples right to be heard and listened to by a skilled and modern council.

I will not be bullied by wellington and I will continue to fight for the people of torfaen. My comment to the people that feel the TPC do not have the skills to have successfully run the council, I can assure you that within the coalition are professionals from all walks of life. The current labour council and leader has had years to prove himself and look at the state of the local economy. If they had done a great job, this message board would not exist; the evidence speaks for itself.

Stability, stability, stability!! THIS is NOT an excuse for the betrayal of the voters! We used our DEMOCRATIC power to show we DONT WANT a Labour majority anymore, and we have been slapped in the face! that is the simple fact of the matter! Its all well and good saying you dont care who has majority as long as they get the job done, but that is the POINT - Labour HAVENT been getting the job done!

It seems to be the Labour cronies seem to think the people of Torfaen are incapable of knowing what is right or wrong from them, that they take on a 'governance' role NOT a REPRESENTATIVE role, which is exectly what they are - REPRESENTATIVES NOT DICTATORS!!

Carys.... That sums up exactly what I think... thank you

I just want to put my two penneth in. Perhaps we are forgetting the True traitors here. The Labour party lost so much credibility at the Election but still have the gall to entice newbies over with offers of power & jobs. Perhaps there is a little bit of alternative reasoning that perhaps these 5 newbies were truly led to believe they were doing the right thing? Brow beaten? trapped? Encouraged? Call it what you will. I am not defending their actions. THEY DID WRONG BY US PEOPLE but they are not totally to blame here. The LABOUR PARTY LEADER is. What the Labour Party should have done is question their Leaders ability to govern their party. Bob Wellington SHOULD have been asked to step down. He lost almost 50% of the seats. If that was at National level, he would have been ousted by the party.

We are fogetting that these 5 are newbies.........and that this constant barrage towards them is deflecting from the true reason that people are angry......that Labour have manouvered themselves back in by immoral means.

I need to correct felix of Panteg on one key point. Cllr Cunnington was a very experienced councillor and had held a labour seat previously. He understood fully his actions and what the impact would be on the people within his ward.

But, you are right the weaker councillors did fall for the charms of the labour machine. I was contacted twice to move over to the darkside....

wales4wales wrote:
Steven lets hope the Cllr put as much effort into the wards as they are on this debate.Besides Lib Dem and Torries i dont think so.

Yes and good for them showing they will fight, unlike some who hide away scripting there next press release with carefully written words. Well nothing they will say will smooth over the damage done. If we wanted labour we would have voted them!

I see strong strong Councillors emerging here, thank god! Will make a change from the spineless ones weve been subject to over the years!
TPC you have my backing 100%

Felix wrote:
I just want to put my two penneth in. Perhaps we are forgetting the True traitors here. The Labour party lost so much credibility at the Election but still have the gall to entice newbies over with offers of power & jobs. Perhaps there is a little bit of alternative reasoning that perhaps these 5 newbies were truly led to believe they were doing the right thing? Brow beaten? trapped? Encouraged? Call it what you will. I am not defending their actions. THEY DID WRONG BY US PEOPLE but they are not totally to blame here. The LABOUR PARTY LEADER is. What the Labour Party should have done is question their Leaders ability to govern their party. Bob Wellington SHOULD have been asked to step down. He lost almost 50% of the seats. If that was at National level, he would have been ousted by the party. We are fogetting that these 5 are newbies.........and that this constant barrage towards them is deflecting from the true reason that people are angry......that Labour have manouvered themselves back in by immoral means.

Thank you - A little sense

Cllr Wildgust wrote:
I need to correct felix of Panteg on one key point. Cllr Cunnington was a very experienced councillor and had held a labour seat previously. He understood fully his actions and what the impact would be on the people within his ward. But, you are right the weaker councillors did fall for the charms of the labour machine. I was contacted twice to move over to the darkside....

what is this star wars........

I admire the actions of Councillor Wildgest.But what he fails to grasp is he his playing right into the hands of the Labour machine.Bob Wellington must be rubbing is hands in glee .He has the famous five in position helping him out for the time being until he his ready to dispose of them.We have Plaid slagging the coalition and then people saying what a waste of time voting .What is needed is to turn the guns on Labour they are the problem becuase they are so cleaver , useing others to do the dirty work for them .

Cllr fred wildgust wrote:
As for as im concerned the famous five betrayed the people that voted for them. The electorate voted for an alternative to labour and then what did the famous five do... The supported labour. If people think that the actions taken by myself and others is simply sour grapes, trust me it isnt; its about democracy and and the peoples right to be heard and listened to by a skilled and modern council. I will not be bullied by wellington and I will continue to fight for the people of torfaen. My comment to the people that feel the TPC do not have the skills to have successfully run the council, I can assure you that within the coalition are professionals from all walks of life. The current labour council and leader has had years to prove himself and look at the state of the local economy. If they had done a great job, this message board would not exist; the evidence speaks for itself.

well cllr wildgust instead of banging on about the famous 5 and trying to make a name for your self put your self forward as the leader and unite the rainbow group.i for one would vote for anyone who could do that,but not this.

My focus is on democracy and democracy alone..... To achieve that I will leave no stone unturned and when that democracy is secured for the people of torfaen.. I will focus on rooting out any corruption or dubious practices that the residents of torfaen believe take place.

Has there been any comments from Labour.
On any of the above.
You want get any becuase they will let Wilgest and others do the damage for them.

Most of the decisions made by council are taken by the Cabinet.

I would much rather see a return to Full Council voting on issues and decisions.

I am unsure how proportional representation could work for independants unless they set up a party. But I fully support a petition constitutional change.

In fact the council appears to amend the constitution quite frequently, they quickly amended the publics right to ask question after our strong BLAST campaign to try and save our Blaenavon pool.

In fact it has the constitution has just been amended again on the 18 May. I didnot think the council could alter anthing until the cabinet, etc had been decided at the AGM. But we are now on Version 16 of the constitution, issued May 18 2008.

I also think that the councils Corporate Priority Plan should be redone after every election.

Apparently this red dot exercise by previous councillors was the main reason some of the previous decisions taken by Torfaen Councillors after advice from their Officers.

Juana Moyle wrote:
Please lets get this petition going, you will have full support from Blaenavon, this man BOB needs to get the BOOT, and his cronies, he is a BULLY!!! What he done to our pool was disgusting, we will not stop fighting, so lets show them, they need to listen to the people....

Cllr Wildgust, you have my full support on getting this petition going. We will get BOB OUT. I agree with Juana he is a BULLY. Demolishing our pool at 3 am and not having a public meeting was disgusting, he is a COWARD. Listen to what the people want and stop him dictating...

To Bob Wellington: Any comment? No I think porbably not. You act TOO ARROGANT to even bother. This is exactly why people voted this Council out - 'No Acountability, and a do as we say not as we do mentality'.

Has Wellington Commented? Or is his arrogance showing i.e. Do as I say not as I do. PURE UNACOUNTABILITY. Sir, You work for us the rate payers, WE pay your wage - but you pay us LIPSERVICE- SHAME SHAME SHAME ON YOU. We will not be CENSORED!!!!!!!!!!!

Cllr Wellington is shocked by what is happening within Torfaen. He thinks if he is quiet long enough people will forget, this will never happen. The legal process has started, my solicitor is studying emails and communications to gather background understanding. Other experts are also studying the constitution and looking at it in respect of contract law. I will continue to fight for democracy, when we have that then lets focus on other issues that affect us all.

I am receiving lots and lots of calls and offers of support, please keep them coming the campaign needs your help.
contact me on 01495 753111 or email fred.wildgust@virgin
.net

Thank you all

I pose a question to you...

have the human rights of the electorate within the famous fives ward been breached?

I dont know the answer.. its just a thought.

If you have a view on this post it up

Human Rights? Probably not - Democratic Rights, most likely which would then warrant a complaint to the Electoral Commission See www.electoralcommiss
ion.com

Scurillous, deceiptful, unethical, immoral behaviour by B W, still we knew he was capable of it now didn't we?

INDEPENDENTS STOP BLEATING,TAKE THE PEOPLES PARTY ON,REMEMBERING THAT COUNCIL MEMBERS OF ANY PARTY HAVE THE POTENTIAL TO BECOME
QUISLINGS ACT ACORDINGLY.

Upto £18,000 a year,!!
nice for some.I bet they don,t work7 days aweek to survive, no they don,t no the meaning of work.Work for me is going out in the community and assisting other,s to lead an independant life.Having thier care packages shrunk as social services are making cut backs due to funding,and who controls it all!! AND YET THEY CAN PAY out the sum,s that has been quoted to these cllrs,what a laugh!!get out in the real world labour and see the mess you,ve made of it, oh! and by the way I have to work 18 mounths at 7 days aweek to bring home £18,000 .I love my job as I no I am helping others to assist with daily tasks that we take for granted. Can they say the same?

Good luck to Cllr Wildgust. Bring on the petition!

Cllr Wildgust and many others seem to miss the obvious. Plaid have let no-one down. Their actions are completely in line with the national situation where they have formed a coalition with Labour. They would have been two faced had they done otherwise in a local situation as their voters could reasonably expect them to follow their national leadership.

Cllr Wildgust wants 4500-5000 to sign a petition as 10% of the voting population of Torfaen. Have so many people left the borough or is he showing his true colours that he knows nothing about Torfaen?

Cllr Wildgust also seems to think that women and young women in particular are unable to choose for themselves what they do. So we've got another sexist and ageist councillor - did we need another?

What has Cllr Wildgust done so far to change issues that really bother us in North Torfaen - like the lak of 6th forms in our comprehensive schools? Or is he only going to work on issues which give him fame and make him sound like the new Llewelyn ap Gruffydd fighting for the rights of the people?

Lets get on with the important issues and stop the petty squabbling.

i have only been a councillor since May the 2nd 2008, I suggest you watch what i do in the future.

The people elected me bacause I am happy to stand up and be counted...

watch this space....

jekyl wrote:
Cllr Wildgust and many others seem to miss the obvious. Plaid have let no-one down. Their actions are completely in line with the national situation where they have formed a coalition with Labour. They would have been two faced had they done otherwise in a local situation as their voters could reasonably expect them to follow their national leadership. Cllr Wildgust wants 4500-5000 to sign a petition as 10% of the voting population of Torfaen. Have so many people left the borough or is he showing his true colours that he knows nothing about Torfaen? Cllr Wildgust also seems to think that women and young women in particular are unable to choose for themselves what they do. So we've got another sexist and ageist councillor - did we need another? What has Cllr Wildgust done so far to change issues that really bother us in North Torfaen - like the lak of 6th forms in our comprehensive schools? Or is he only going to work on issues which give him fame and make him sound like the new Llewelyn ap Gruffydd fighting for the rights of the people? Lets get on with the important issues and stop the petty squabbling.

If you think its petty 'god help us' I would rather have Cllr Wildgust on my side than you. Is it not time people stopped rolling over and having their bellies tickled, theirs nothing wrong with fighting for what you believe in.
If that is all Mr Jekyl can contribute bring on Mr Hyde.

Dear residents of Torfaen and supporters of the petition. The Torfaen peoples Coalition intend to make a statement to the press within 48 hours. Naturally, information will be limited due to the sensitive nature of the problems we face, but its will be very positive.

The labour party and the famous five are very worried, they never expected such a public outcry and they hope it will disappear.

They have unleashed a whirlwind and the storm is coming.

Bob wellington will not be able to use the council legal department to defend his position, because this is a cross party problem...

jekyl wrote:
Cllr Wildgust and many others seem to miss the obvious. Plaid have let no-one down. Their actions are completely in line with the national situation where they have formed a coalition with Labour. They would have been two faced had they done otherwise in a local situation as their voters could reasonably expect them to follow their national leadership. Cllr Wildgust wants 4500-5000 to sign a petition as 10% of the voting population of Torfaen. Have so many people left the borough or is he showing his true colours that he knows nothing about Torfaen? Cllr Wildgust also seems to think that women and young women in particular are unable to choose for themselves what they do. So we've got another sexist and ageist councillor - did we need another? What has Cllr Wildgust done so far to change issues that really bother us in North Torfaen - like the lak of 6th forms in our comprehensive schools? Or is he only going to work on issues which give him fame and make him sound like the new Llewelyn ap Gruffydd fighting for the rights of the people? Lets get on with the important issues and stop the petty squabbling.

This proves you have not been paying attentions. Cllr Wildgust is a NEW Councillor. You expect HIM to be responsible for the lack of 6th forms in Torfaen North?.... LABOUR and the OTHER local councillors have had PLENTY of time to tackle that problem. HAVE THEY?
I admire mr wildgust for the bottle to fight when others are so clearly HIBERNATING! He gives me confidence for a future change. How about supporting HIM AND THE COALITION not GOAD them. ALL i predict is Mr wellington trying his best to buy and worm his way back in promising all sorts to people as he will STILL be in fear or loosing his position. REMEMBER ALL... there is another AGM in 11 months where IF PLAID realise the mistake they made, and then vote with the coalition, WELLINGTON and his labour lot will be out!! 11 months away! Come on you lot, stick with it, support the coaliton,show those famous five they did wrong and to vote with the COALITION in 11 months time!!
Mark my words, Mr Wellington will pull out no stops over the next 11 months, but remember what hes done. DONT fall for it!!

I predict that the famous five will lose their chairships within weeks. Bob wellington's strength lies within his close circle or cabinet friends, everyone else is cannon fodder to him.

Trust me they will lose their chairships in weeks, the legal machine has started.

Cllr fred wildgust wrote:
Dear residents of Torfaen and supporters of the petition. The Torfaen peoples Coalition intend to make a statement to the press within 48 hours. Naturally, information will be limited due to the sensitive nature of the problems we face, but its will be very positive. The labour party and the famous five are very worried, they never expected such a public outcry and they hope it will disappear. They have unleashed a whirlwind and the storm is coming. Bob wellington will not be able to use the council legal department to defend his position, because this is a cross party problem...

This is just good news, keep the ball rolling,hopefully the storm will be a big one, we need fresh people who will fight for us, not see how much they can put in their pockets.
Bob and his cronies need to go !!!!
I laugh when Bob says listen to the people.
He didnt even have the Balls... to have a public meeting with the people of Blaenavon...(that's what you call listening to the people hey!!!!)
We had to sit in a chamber when the future of our pool was discussed & keep quiet. NOT NO MORE...

Hi Dan

No, I don't expect Clr Wildgust to have succeeded in doing anything yet but I do suppose that he might have had the time to ask some questions rather than spending his time resorting to sexist and ageist comments and making ridiculous comments about people who are only doing what their voters should have suspected - form a coalition in the sane way as their AMs have done in the Assembly. I also expect him to have done a bit of research on hte number of people voting in our borough - where's he from?

TREACHERY ( a Poem written on 22nd May 08)

What happened today was a sin,
Labour was allowed to get back in,
Torfaen Peoples Coalition was denied,
The voters wishes were defied,

It was a forgone conclusion,
Achieved by Treachery & collusion,
Bt two independents, and threee plaid,
These turncoats will have nowhere to hide,

Tempted by money they could not resist,
Given Judas' silver in their fist,
Under false pretenses two independents stood,
as labour candidates, be defeated they would,

Their deception will not be forgot,
plaids credibility too has been lost,
Torfaen peoples Coalition with heads held high,
Saw a golden oppportunity slide by,

The public were betrayed once more,
Labour being let in by the back door,
The outcome of this Tragedy?
We'll just have to wait and see!

jekyl wrote:
Hi Dan No, I don\'t expect Clr Wildgust to have succeeded in doing anything yet but I do suppose that he might have had the time to ask some questions rather than spending his time resorting to sexist and ageist comments and making ridiculous comments about people who are only doing what their voters should have suspected - form a coalition in the sane way as their AMs have done in the Assembly. I also expect him to have done a bit of research on hte number of people voting in our borough - where\'s he from?

Believe me Mr Wildgust knows his stuff, you will see a caring, working councillor emerge over the forth coming months. He has already fought local issues and won! Which is exactly the kind of Councillors that Torfaen need. Labour has done a pathetic job, therefore TPC have my full support. We Need people like them,new,fresh,drive

,challenging etc to run our council.


ps Mr Hardy - Great Poem - words in which the most of us express... keep them coming, keep THIS topic going.

I have been quiet for a couple of days because I am on holiday and trying to balance family life and the battle for Torfaens democracy. Trust me though lots of emails have been sent and the leader of the coalition now knows my schedule for action.

I read jekls comments with interest, I find it amusing that who ever he/she is, is focusing on me. Perhaps he/she is one of the famous five and is trying to deflect attention from the true issue, which is loss of democracy and the betrayal of the people.

I invite the said person to meet me at my first surgery, there will be two per month in pontypool ward. that way he/she can discuss issues with me personally and I will reassure he/she that I am a man of the people.

Dan is exacly right, I do know my stuff and what I dont know I will research and find out.... Bob Wellington knows me and he knows I wont give up, he is frightened of what the future holds.

Dan is also right I have been a fought issues and won them for the people of Pontypool. Each battle I have fought the council have failed to support it in anyway, but each time it was won.

I will win this battle to and they know it, thats why they are hiding. The law is on our side, we will win but its going to be painful and dirty. They will not give up thier Special Allowances without a fight.

In the summer new legislation is being introduced to make petitioning councils even easier. This will support our campaign.

If my legal advice supports my arguement and I am sure I am operating within the law. I will organise a public meeting that will set out my actions and intentions.

I hope by that point the Leader of the Council will have stepped down and the famous five have agreed in writing to support true democracy through the introduction of Proportional representation on all member lead committees including the cabinet.

Call me if you want to discuss the problems of Torfaen on 01495 753111.

Mr Hardy wrote:
TREACHERY ( a Poem written on 22nd May 08) What happened today was a sin, Labour was allowed to get back in, Torfaen Peoples Coalition was denied, The voters wishes were defied, It was a forgone conclusion, Achieved by Treachery & collusion, Bt two independents, and threee plaid, These turncoats will have nowhere to hide, Tempted by money they could not resist, Given Judas\' silver in their fist, Under false pretenses two independents stood, as labour candidates, be defeated they would, Their deception will not be forgot, plaids credibility too has been lost, Torfaen peoples Coalition with heads held high, Saw a golden oppportunity slide by, The public were betrayed once more, Labour being let in by the back door, The outcome of this Tragedy? We\'ll just have to wait and see!

This is great, I envy Mr Hardy having such skill and passion.

Lets have more!!!!

Mr hardy contact Cllr Tom Gould, his work is printed in the Freepress

I have read all the comments on the page and cannot believe how blind some people seem to be too what has happened in torfaen.

Labour was voted out. Labour, especially their leader Bob Wellington used immoral and argueably corrupt means of worming his way to stay in his post, every labour councillor allowed this to happen. 'The Famous Five' used equally immoral means in accepting the posts.

Although I disagree with some comments listed, I am willing to accept them as part of democracy. However that is exactlly what Wellington does not allow. when the clowncillors voted to knock down Bleanafon LC wellington did not allow a fair vote. the 'debate' on the issue was the following;

The council had ample time to prepare, show a presentation and circulate their plans to knock down the LC to the Cllrs.
Members of the public had their voice limited, they could only ask questions through BLAST, who could only have ten questions. No sublimary questions, no presentation (even though one had been prepared and countered the councils arguement)and no paperwork could be circulated. Even the questions didn't have to be answered. Rose Seabourne at the time could not vote because of her interests in swimming.
However her husband Phil, could vote, even though he has been a swimming coach for over 15 years, surely making him ineligible to vote and making the whole vote nul and void.

This is not democracy. The council lead by Bob WELLINGTON almost underpins such terror groups which want communism/anti-democ

ratic.

I support Cllr Wildgust and ANY other cllr who stands by their convictions and fights for an equal say and equal services FOR ALL in the borough. I have had my services cut, but not my council tax, which is unfair and and discriminatory on social demographic grounds as all others in other parts of the borough has not.

I stand by those fighting for democracy as it is only when we have this can cllrs then vote as a representative of their ward's electorate.

At the end of the day, people voted for change and have been denied this. This undermines democracy in Britain as well as Torfaen.

Good work Cllr Wildgust, please keep it going.

Thank you for your kind words. I have created an action plan that operated with dates and actions. As soon as my legal questions have been fully answered to my satisfaction, I will then start the process of seeking constitutional change.

I should have confirmation later this week from the solicitors in cardiff.

My message to the leader of the council is the people of torfaen want democracy, do the right thing step down and ask the famous five to step down.

You should set up a web site. Perhaps with TPC etc, one way to do it free is setting up a Myspace blog page. You could include it in your TCBC profile and post it on here. This will be shut down soon.
Just a thought.

SCRUTINY : a searching or critical look, close watch.
We need dedicated andself-less people brave enough to take on the job of ensuring that TBC makes the decisions that best serve the interests of the people of Torfaen. Jeff Rees, Fiona Cross and Maria Graham have bravely taken this on for YOU!
Please note-none are on the cabinet. They are there to SCRUTINISE on your behalf. Don't begrudge them the extra allowance. Remember that all members receive over £1200.00 so the measly bit extra these three hard working members get will not buy their unconditional support for the Labour group. They are not in a coalition. Every issue will be judged on this one criterion alone : What's best for the people of Torfaen! Trust them!

Saucyandsqueak - What a load of dribble!!! Have you got shares in Labour I wonder??

I don't think anyone would begrudge them the extra money for the extra work, so long as they do as the electorate wants and it is that which underlines the problem. The Torfaen electorate overwhelmingly voted Labour and especially Bob Wellington out, but the 'Famous Five' used the situation to gain the positions and defy the peoples wishes.

If you knew anything about politics inTorfaen you'd know the 'SCRUTINY' committees in Torfaen mean nothing as most of the Cllrs on them are sheep, only bleating for Bob.

saucyandsqueak wrote:
SCRUTINY : a searching or critical look, close watch.
We need dedicated andself-less people brave enough to take on the job of ensuring that TBC makes the decisions that best serve the interests of the people of Torfaen. Jeff Rees, Fiona Cross and Maria Graham have bravely taken this on for YOU!
Please note-none are on the cabinet. They are there to SCRUTINISE on your behalf. Don\'t begrudge them the extra allowance. Remember that all members receive over £1200.00 so the measly bit extra these three hard working members get will not buy their unconditional support for the Labour group. They are not in a coalition. Every issue will be judged on this one criterion alone : What\'s best for the people of Torfaen! Trust them!

trust them.yeah as far as i can throw them.. we voted those people in to get labour out. the muppets stabbed us,the voters,in the back. they r nothing more than greedy traitors. i look forward to all there surgerys..i plan to attend all. THEY WILL ALL HAVE TO deal with me face to face.

Independent : i) not dependent. eg. self governing. ii) not affiliated with a larger controlling unit. iii) not committed to a political party.

Calling all INDEPENDENTS. Do you recognise yourselves now? Are you just hell bent on getting into a position of power and have an eye for the more lucrative positions offered in the cabinet that you will sign up with any Tom, Dick or Harry. You are prepared to take on any colour of the 'Rainbow' in order to destroy and obstruct the only viable option for Torfaen at the present time. If the VALIANT Plaid councillors had taken the easy option and joined you on the shelves of the Multi Coloured Swop Shop they would be having a 'party' right now. but for how long? Not long before the party 'Guests' get tired and depart, leaving a mess of debris for someone else to clear up!
Deception you cry! What is deception if it isn't and independent who isn't. One who hides under an invisibility cloak and is too much of a coward to reveal his true colours.
We know what the Plaid councillors stand for!

saucyandsqueak wrote:
Independent : i) not dependent. eg. self governing. ii) not affiliated with a larger controlling unit. iii) not committed to a political party. Calling all INDEPENDENTS. Do you recognise yourselves now? Are you just hell bent on getting into a position of power and have an eye for the more lucrative positions offered in the cabinet that you will sign up with any Tom, Dick or Harry. You are prepared to take on any colour of the 'Rainbow' in order to destroy and obstruct the only viable option for Torfaen at the present time. If the VALIANT Plaid councillors had taken the easy option and joined you on the shelves of the Multi Coloured Swop Shop they would be having a 'party' right now. but for how long? Not long before the party 'Guests' get tired and depart, leaving a mess of debris for someone else to clear up! Deception you cry! What is deception if it isn't and independent who isn't. One who hides under an invisibility cloak and is too much of a coward to reveal his true colours. We know what the Plaid councillors stand for!

Yes we know what Plaid Stand for * TRAITORS* you dont need to remind us.
As for your pathetic comments above, you really think BINGO BOB has done well in Torfaen? DONT YOU KNOW THE ELECTION RESULTS TOOK AWAY HALF OF LABOURS SEATS! Just thought I would remind you, as your attention seems to goad the INDEPENDENTS. Very strange that indeed. WHOEVER you really are * cough cough* your attempts are like fuel to fire... will make us support the DEMOCRATRIC TPC! So keep going
a)your proving how narrow minded and blinkered you are
b)Your arguements are falling on deaf ears.

Independents formed a COALITION with other Partys because that is what the PEOPLE OF TORFAEN wanted. TO GER LABOUR OUT. Does this not sink in to you? I suggest you go back to your CHAIR and soak it up for a short while because it will not last long. Labours ruling is slowing being dragged from under there feet...... ENJOY WHILE YOU CAN!

I have a meeting planned for week after next with borough solicitor. i have sought legsl advice and am now following it. By the end of the month a petition will be in circulation and i will launch with the press present. we will then see which councillors truly support democracy. the fight is only just beginning and bingo bob cant ignore it.

Janice Cook wrote:
You should set up a web site. Perhaps with TPC etc, one way to do it free is setting up a Myspace blog page. You could include it in your TCBC profile and post it on here. This will be shut down soon. Just a thought.

dear janice, i will set up a website. people will be able to print out the petition & leave msgs etc. lots of people want access to facts.

Fantastic news Cllr Wildgust, you will have 100% supprot from Blaenavon.
We will not rest until Bingo Bob has gone .....

Reading from my Oxford School Thesausus the word Labour reads effort, exertion, toil, hard working, Independent reads autonomous, liberated, Neutral nonaligned an Independent opinion see unbiased, even handed fair, impartial does not sound very Independent to me!
Conservative reads conformist,die-hard,

narrow minded,old fashioned,unadventou

rous, traditionalist,Tory, We all remember the Tories and what Margaret Thatcher did to our miners the Blaenavon minority should be ashamed to join them. , Liberal reads abundant ample bounteous,lavish, Lavishly missing most meetings and even falling asleep in some, even this week. There is no explanation of People's Voice Torfaen but looking at there photographs and reading their rantings I will leave this to make your own definition up. I know which ones I prefer and our forefathers of this borough would be turning in their graves after all they fought for if only there were email's from heaven.

Look, this is not a Labour bashing, Independent bashing forum. Quite simply, the majority of rate payers voted Torfaen Labour council out. Our democratic views were ignored and through the back door Torfaen Labour got control. I don't give a flying squirrel crap who is in charge, just not the sloped shouldered idiots who mismanaged our Borough for so many years. Just look at the Senior Cabinet pictures on TCBC web site and you will see who. We pay their wages, we have the right to valid comments. Fresh blood, new ideas were voted for, lets get this County cleaned up and bring it up to scratch with our neighbours.

My father always said to me the truth can sometimes hurt and looking at the reaction to my one posting I obviously hit a raw nerve.
Yes this is the Mrs Rosemarie Seabourne who was a Cabinet Member for Health Social Care & Wellbeing who gave only of her best to the people of Greenmeadow & Torfaen for the last ten years and it was a priviledge and I can leave saying I made a difference. It was not out of selfishness that I became a Councillor and it certainly was not for the money. The newly elected members will realise this soon enough. As for Jules of Greenmeadow I do not hold any personal grudge we can all look to history I certainly can but I may not be as old as she thinks I am and we can all make typigraphical errors can't we Cllr Lewis, just take a look above. As for Muriel I am familiar with the bible and there was only one perfect man and they crucified him. In response to Community Councillor Clair Higgins who also did not win a County Borough seat on May 1st. We win some we lose some but you really have to get over it, I give you credit for your fight to save Blaenavon pool, but it was really up to the people of Bleanavon to use the facility and make it pay it's way not become a burden around all tax payers from the North of the Borough to the South allowing people from other Boroughs the use of a nice quiet swim at our tax payers expense. I started politics fighting for the Wales fifty metre pool for Torfaen and helped along with the Labour led Council to achieve the refurbishment of Cwmbran Stadium and Pontypool Leisure Centre I have supported swimming in this borough for 30 years taught thousands to swim young and old and was instrumental in bringing free swimming for children to Torfaen and Wales in an encouragement to the underprivildege to use our facilities, There was no one that fought harder to save your pool than Labour Cllr Neil Lewis and what did the people of Blaenavon do to thank him? I am pleased to see that there are some unbiased, even minded people writing to this website and in one way I am pleased people are taking democracy seriously, when I look at the marked up register which records those people that used there democratic right to vote and actually voted, we none of us have anything to be proud of! The last Council did it's best to get people involved and consulted widely with the public, I was in Blaenavon, Pontypool and Cwmbran, when we were asking views of the Community Strategy remember the Vox Pop and the show at the Iron Works? We brought young people from our schools and colleges into the Cabinet meetings as well as people from the older person's forum and elsewhere. We opened our Scrutiny Committees and Members seminars to the public which I must say was poorly attended even by the press, who now seem to be taking great pleasure from the sudden rush of democratic interest since the Election and who I may say were very biased in their reporting, although I owe them personal thanks for contacting the Council to check out whether the libel accusations in a letter against me were true and subsequently refused to print.
We consulted carers and service users before we altered our day activities service to the most vulnerable in our society we consulted widley on our school amalgamations and closures, when you are in the position of Councillor you cannot always have what you want and difficult decisions have to be taken. Our Council tax only pays for a proportion of the cost of our services and certainly does not pay for Cllr allowances this comes from central government. I think the people of Torfaen have one of the best Councils, I welcome the opposition but I would ask that you keep a record of their attendance it is good to sit at the computer and write emails but if you cannot be bothered to attend the training that has been programmed for the last month at a cost to you the tax payer and when the readers of this log onto the meetings of the last TCBC Scrutiny meetings and ask for attendance records of Members seminars you can see where the commitment lies or where Scrutiny takes place. One particular Indepenent Councillor who has been re-elected whose attendance equated to £500 per meeting because he still picked up his monthly cheque but showed no committment to his ward or the people of Torfaen it is a worth while excercise for all you rightous people who are so quick to condemn just take a look at the attendance record since May 1st for the training of all your elected representatives I dare you! Log onto the Torfaen website look at those Cllrs allocated to the last Scrutiny committees and then look at apologies or absent then you can see whether you get value for money. I am not saying all the Labour Group were perfect either but I can assure you there was more committment by the Leader and Cabinet of the 2004 -2008 Council than people give them credit for but then it is easy to sit back and throw muck when it is not you that is accountable. I would urge that people read the minutes of there Council meetings and make there own minds up rather than read the bitterness and immature rantings of the few. I will watch with interest the next few months whether the progressive forward thinking authority goes forward or will our new Elected Members continue with their incessant ****.

Mrs Rose Seabourne, I APPLAUD your considered reponse to the insane rantings posted on this site. Personal insults and name calling are juvenile and immature and have no place in any democratic process. I abhor the practice and anyone who condones or encourages it to whip up support for their own ends. As you say not all labour councillors are perfect and the electorate are suspicious that somewhat dubious tactics that are sometimes used to achieve certain outcomes. They want more transparency in the system and more accountability. The new Plaid members may well be able to help achieve this.

Instead of personal attacking new Councillors, instead of blowing your own trumpet, instead of making making out you were totally white ( WHICH YOU WERE NOT ) Why dont you channel your obvious free time Mrs Seabourne into something worthwhile. We CARE about our vote and what happened. We voted in order to change the Council, whether the change would have been for the best? well who knows,noone can make assumptions on what has not happened. How ridiculoue. REGARDING the swimming pool in question Mrs Seabourne....your THEN council bull dozed it down early hours of the morning... Im glad you know your bible as I am sure JESUS would not have been too happy with the sly, underhanded way in which YOU AS A COUNCIL did that to the pool. I suggest you sit back and watch as I am SURE you will see a dedicated TPC. Ones who not only turn up for meetings,but seem to genuinly care for the people in Torfaen.
I received a lovely newsletter last week from my newly elected Independent Councillor.Something I have never had with Labour being my Councillor.
Good Luck TPC, I am sure I speak for a majority of Torfaen. The fact you are such a topic to them is because you have Labour Scared.
I am looking forward to the coming year, i predict a more farer representation in meetings. ABOUT TIME!

Mrs Seabourne, How dare you bring Blaenavon Pool into things again. Blaenavon people fought hard to try and save our pool. And we will keep fighting to get it back.

Torfaen Labour Council LIED repeatly to us all. You promised us that you would repair our pool and centre all through January, Feb, March, and April, right up until after the May Assembly Elections, then within days of the election result, you held a council meeting to suddenly suggest closing it.

The pools within Pontypool and Cwmbran are all supported by the council tax payers, from all parts of Torfaen. None of the pools break even or cover costs. Why is it fair for Cwmbran to have 3 pools funded by Torfaen budgets, and for Pontypool to have a pool and 2 leisure facilities, yet have nothing left in the North of Torfaen... even your own Labour councillors realised this which is why all the councillors, Labour and independents in North Torfaen voted against closure. Your leader caused Torfaen to split into a North/ South devide again.

Good ole Bulldozer Bob wanted it gone, so we had no chance.

To Rose Seabourne - Thanks for the long winded or maybe considered reply. You seem to forget three things:
1)Blaenfon pool brought in money from outside the borough by many users coming from abergavenny, newport, brynmawr, ebbw vale, newbridge plus other to name just a few. How is this a bad thing? that is what this borough needs is investment from outside because we are a small borough and need that investment.

2)You talk about low useage of the blaenafon facilities and how it is a burden on all the borough, i'm sorry but i thought that the borough consisted of the whole of torfaen and the facilities from all of the borough are supported by the entire borough - or are you trying to divide the borough? Maybe the previous administration mishandled the finances and invested
(by means of grants from external bodies) too heavily in Cwmbran and Pontypool centres and not even allowing enough to maintain other leisure facilties. You live in Fairwater, how can you justify having 4 leisure centres with swimming pools within 7 miles of your house when residents in Blaenafon have only got one (which is overcrowded)?? With your proud history in swimming in the borough, you should be ashamed of yourself for allowing this scenario,especially inflicting this upon the residents of Torfaen most likely to be in danger of water hazards due to the demographic area. Also- when talking about usage figures, blaenafon was one of the highest in the borough, especially compared to usage per population head, obvisously the council members were not allowed the full facts on the 18th july 2007 (as I explained in previous comments).

3)The last but most important fact - The electorate of Torfaen voted for change, this cannot be questioned as Labours representatives were halved. A message from the electorate was WE WANT CHANGE, rightly or wrongly that is what the electorate wanted. But this hasn't happened because for what ever reason, the leader is the same the entire Cabinet and support positions are all the same party, NOTHING HAS CHANGED!
Bob Wellignton has been quoted as saying the council will listen to the people....If so then why are there no other party's/indepedents represented? Clearly Bob has failed at the first hurdle (but thats no surprise). Any decent Leader would acknowledge defeat when he leads his party into an election and come out with half it's representatives. By the way, as I understand it the electorate turnout this year was approximately 31%. And although I have no figures in front of me, I believe the average turnout in Torfaen for council elections is approximately 15-20%, which in my book isn't ideal, but it was a good turnout in comparison.

I won't bother going into the other points you have made,like doing its best to consult widely with the public on the community strategy. I haven't seen one leaflet, had one newsletter, heard one radio broadcast, seen any posters nor had the courteousy to meet one council representative to ask me my views - maybe thats where Labour failed? Take a look at the all important coporate plan that completely leaves out leisure opportunities. (The council didn't highlight this when they was taking credit for the refurbished Cwmbran and Pontypool centres

Look at me, your response has drawn me to make an even longer message than you!! I'll finish by saying I have tried to stay away from personal insults because it is only negative, it does not bring out results. However With power comes responsibility, Labour should have been and should be now responsible enough to admit that the electorate wants change and respond to that, not cosmetic surgery, but a complete change, knew faces, not one dominant party, but many party's that are representative of all of torfaen. In my opinion, not allowing this is perverting the democratic rights of the people of Torfaen and undermining democracy in general-and to you and saucyandsqueak- that is why people become angry and as they have not been listened too from a decent voice, they try personal attacks because maybe that will help?

Posted by: Mrs R Seabourne, Cwmbran on 10:35pm Wed 4 Jun 08
--------------------

-
In response to Community Councillor Clair Higgins who also did not win a County Borough seat on May 1st. We win some we lose some but you really have to get over it, I give you credit for your fight to save Blaenavon pool, but it was really up to the people of Bleanavon to use the facility and make it pay it's way not become a burden around all tax payers from the North of the Borough to the South allowing people from other Boroughs the use of a nice quiet swim at our tax payers expense. I started politics fighting for the Wales fifty metre pool for Torfaen and helped along with the Labour led Council to achieve the refurbishment of Cwmbran Stadium and Pontypool Leisure Centre I have supported swimming in this borough for 30 years taught thousands to swim young and old and was instrumental in bringing free swimming for children to Torfaen and Wales in an encouragement to the underprivildege to use our facilities, There was no one that fought harder to save your pool than Labour Cllr Neil Lewis and what did the people of Blaenavon do to thank him?

I am sorry Mrs Seabourne, in my previous post I merely tried to explain how a Rainbow Coalition may operate.

However you appear to feel that you needed to tell me about our Blaenavon pool campaign.

Yes I fought Torfaen hard against the closure, both in the 2 demonstrations that I, myself organised before BLAST existed, and in the direct action I along with other residents took to try and prevent demolition as a private resident in the final sad days, and of course as a BLAST committee member. I will continue to fight for the return of swimming and leisure to Blaenavon. I am sorry but I will not and cannot get over this sad loss.

In fact most of the North Torfaen Labour and independent councillors from both county and community councils also campaigned strongly to save our precious pool, along with Neil Lewis. The Labour deputy leader offered an amendment to allow BLAST time to finsh our Business Plan and present it to you all. Even after Alision Ward stated that retaining the pool would not stop the new campus plans, negotiation was still not an option.

BLAST figures were different from the council figures and errors were admitted within the council figures, yet the same old original numbers were used repeatly to work out costs. Blaenavon offered to run the pool ourselves, and again this was not an option.

NO Torfaen council funded pools makes a profit, they are all subsidized by the tax payers.

Blaenavon pool served all of North Torfaen and the surrounding boroughs, thus helping to bring money into the County.

And finally, yes I ran for County election for Torfaen and I am a new Lib Dem Blaenavon Town Councillor (unpaid). I would like to thank the residents of Blaenavon for allowing me the honour of representing them.

To Saucyand squeak - I must apologise to you. From reading you last messages, maybe you don't have shares in Labour, it sounds as if they are in Plaid?
Or are they one and the same now, as I am confused on the current situation??

People in Torfaen have said many a time,there is a North /South divide.Because of the actions of the famous five we now have a North /South split.Also,the red rose of Labour has now lost its colour is it to be yellow and a dull red?

I would say Labour are made up of:-

Ignorant RED with a splash of the bitter taste of Lemon & Lime Plaid,topped of with a dash of traitor TWOTONE spineless Independents.

As you can see i am in know way happy i wasted my vote on one of the traitors. How dare they. How dare you Mrs Seabourne try to sweep what they have done under the carpet but totally avoiding the issue in hand. Labour should have accepted defeat & so should have Mr Wellington.

4yrs time there is going to be a massive change.. I suggest we use our votes wise and not vote plaid or those 2 indpendents in. COME ON TPC you got 4 yrs to create a gathering of candidates who will stand in EVERY ward! We wont just win, i predict we will then well and truly KICK LABOUR OUT!

Cllr fred wildgust wrote:
i have only been a councillor since May the 2nd 2008, I suggest you watch what i do in the future. The people elected me bacause I am happy to stand up and be counted... watch this space....

The 3 Plaid Councillors have only been elected since 2nd May too. Perhapes I'll give them a chance rather than read your propaganda clap trap! I will not be mislead by the rubbish that has been told on this website. It has moved away from the facts - sour grapes.

Dan wrote:

jekyl wrote: Cllr Wildgust and many others seem to miss the obvious. Plaid have let no-one down. Their actions are completely in line with the national situation where they have formed a coalition with Labour. They would have been two faced had they done otherwise in a local situation as their voters could reasonably expect them to follow their national leadership. Cllr Wildgust wants 4500-5000 to sign a petition as 10% of the voting population of Torfaen. Have so many people left the borough or is he showing his true colours that he knows nothing about Torfaen? Cllr Wildgust also seems to think that women and young women in particular are unable to choose for themselves what they do. So we've got another sexist and ageist councillor - did we need another? What has Cllr Wildgust done so far to change issues that really bother us in North Torfaen - like the lak of 6th forms in our comprehensive schools? Or is he only going to work on issues which give him fame and make him sound like the new Llewelyn ap Gruffydd fighting for the rights of the people? Lets get on with the important issues and stop the petty squabbling.

This proves you have not been paying attentions. Cllr Wildgust is a NEW Councillor. You expect HIM to be responsible for the lack of 6th forms in Torfaen North?.... LABOUR and the OTHER local councillors have had PLENTY of time to tackle that problem. HAVE THEY? I admire mr wildgust for the bottle to fight when others are so clearly HIBERNATING! He gives me confidence for a future change. How about supporting HIM AND THE COALITION not GOAD them. ALL i predict is Mr wellington trying his best to buy and worm his way back in promising all sorts to people as he will STILL be in fear or loosing his position. REMEMBER ALL... there is another AGM in 11 months where IF PLAID realise the mistake they made, and then vote with the coalition, WELLINGTON and his labour lot will be out!! 11 months away! Come on you lot, stick with it, support the coaliton,show those famous five they did wrong and to vote with the COALITION in 11 months time!! Mark my words, Mr Wellington will pull out no stops over the next 11 months, but remember what hes done. DONT fall for it!!

You've got No Chance! I will be outraged if a conservative lead group get in next year!!!!! Sooner vote Raving Lunatic party in then that lot. They are not telling the truth and are using this website to advertise their views. I wouldn't be surprised if half of the people writing on here are related or pals with members of the coalition. Go and read the facts for yourselves. The people of Torfaen will not be fed the same rubbish by the coalition as Labour have fed us for years

WOW - has anything in politics in Torfaen ever had this amount of public outcry? NO which just goes to prove that the voters of Torfaen are deeply upset and angered at the actions of the famous five - Cunnington (I still cannot regard him worthy of the title Councillor) is not holding surgeries in his ward - I wonder why? Graham (Councillor? hopefully not for long) is - and I hope the people of her ward turn up in droves and tell her exactly what they think of her actions. The people of Torfaen have long been bullied by Wellington - perhaps it is time for the public to now bully these Councillors and the other members of the infamous five. Enough is enough this debate will go on for a long time and will not go away until they resign their positions on the councils - do not rest until Wellington has gone - he must be getting the message by now - thick skinned he may be but he must have picked up the message by now that he and his cronies are not wanted in Torfaen.

Resign now famous five your fifteen minutes of fame are almost up.

Mr A Jones wrote:

Dan wrote:

jekyl wrote: Cllr Wildgust and many others seem to miss the obvious. Plaid have let no-one down. Their actions are completely in line with the national situation where they have formed a coalition with Labour. They would have been two faced had they done otherwise in a local situation as their voters could reasonably expect them to follow their national leadership. Cllr Wildgust wants 4500-5000 to sign a petition as 10% of the voting population of Torfaen. Have so many people left the borough or is he showing his true colours that he knows nothing about Torfaen? Cllr Wildgust also seems to think that women and young women in particular are unable to choose for themselves what they do. So we\'ve got another sexist and ageist councillor - did we need another? What has Cllr Wildgust done so far to change issues that really bother us in North Torfaen - like the lak of 6th forms in our comprehensive schools? Or is he only going to work on issues which give him fame and make him sound like the new Llewelyn ap Gruffydd fighting for the rights of the people? Lets get on with the important issues and stop the petty squabbling.

This proves you have not been paying attentions. Cllr Wildgust is a NEW Councillor. You expect HIM to be responsible for the lack of 6th forms in Torfaen North?.... LABOUR and the OTHER local councillors have had PLENTY of time to tackle that problem. HAVE THEY? I admire mr wildgust for the bottle to fight when others are so clearly HIBERNATING! He gives me confidence for a future change. How about supporting HIM AND THE COALITION not GOAD them. ALL i predict is Mr wellington trying his best to buy and worm his way back in promising all sorts to people as he will STILL be in fear or loosing his position. REMEMBER ALL... there is another AGM in 11 months where IF PLAID realise the mistake they made, and then vote with the coalition, WELLINGTON and his labour lot will be out!! 11 months away! Come on you lot, stick with it, support the coaliton,show those famous five they did wrong and to vote with the COALITION in 11 months time!! Mark my words, Mr Wellington will pull out no stops over the next 11 months, but remember what hes done. DONT fall for it!!

You\'ve got No Chance! I will be outraged if a conservative lead group get in next year!!!!! Sooner vote Raving Lunatic party in then that lot. They are not telling the truth and are using this website to advertise their views. I wouldn\'t be surprised if half of the people writing on here are related or pals with members of the coalition. Go and read the facts for yourselves. The people of Torfaen will not be fed the same rubbish by the coalition as Labour have fed us for years

Have people gone mad!!!!!It turns out the Coalition wanted a Conservative led Council to run Torfaen.
Two points
1.Are certain Cllr's upset they never got their cabinet seat.
2.Have the people of the Valleys forgot what Thatcher did to Wales.

PLAID want a Welsh run Wales but it takes time.Support them in moving Wales forward.

quote

fairsaytoday wrote:

Cllr fred wildgust wrote: i have only been a councillor since May the 2nd 2008, I suggest you watch what i do in the future. The people elected me bacause I am happy to stand up and be counted... watch this space....

The 3 Plaid Councillors have only been elected since 2nd May too. Perhapes I\'ll give them a chance rather than read your propaganda clap trap! I will not be mislead by the rubbish that has been told on this website. It has moved away from the facts - sour grapes.

Cllr Windgust if the coalition had been elected would you have had a cabinet post with extra earnings?

wales4wales wrote:

Mr A Jones wrote:

Dan wrote:

jekyl wrote: Cllr Wildgust and many others seem to miss the obvious. Plaid have let no-one down. Their actions are completely in line with the national situation where they have formed a coalition with Labour. They would have been two faced had they done otherwise in a local situation as their voters could reasonably expect them to follow their national leadership. Cllr Wildgust wants 4500-5000 to sign a petition as 10% of the voting population of Torfaen. Have so many people left the borough or is he showing his true colours that he knows nothing about Torfaen? Cllr Wildgust also seems to think that women and young women in particular are unable to choose for themselves what they do. So we\\\\\\\'ve got another sexist and ageist councillor - did we need another? What has Cllr Wildgust done so far to change issues that really bother us in North Torfaen - like the lak of 6th forms in our comprehensive schools? Or is he only going to work on issues which give him fame and make him sound like the new Llewelyn ap Gruffydd fighting for the rights of the people? Lets get on with the important issues and stop the petty squabbling.

This proves you have not been paying attentions. Cllr Wildgust is a NEW Councillor. You expect HIM to be responsible for the lack of 6th forms in Torfaen North?.... LABOUR and the OTHER local councillors have had PLENTY of time to tackle that problem. HAVE THEY? I admire mr wildgust for the bottle to fight when others are so clearly HIBERNATING! He gives me confidence for a future change. How about supporting HIM AND THE COALITION not GOAD them. ALL i predict is Mr wellington trying his best to buy and worm his way back in promising all sorts to people as he will STILL be in fear or loosing his position. REMEMBER ALL... there is another AGM in 11 months where IF PLAID realise the mistake they made, and then vote with the coalition, WELLINGTON and his labour lot will be out!! 11 months away! Come on you lot, stick with it, support the coaliton,show those famous five they did wrong and to vote with the COALITION in 11 months time!! Mark my words, Mr Wellington will pull out no stops over the next 11 months, but remember what hes done. DONT fall for it!!

You\\\\\\\'ve got No Chance! I will be outraged if a conservative lead group get in next year!!!!! Sooner vote Raving Lunatic party in then that lot. They are not telling the truth and are using this website to advertise their views. I wouldn\\\\\\\'t be surprised if half of the people writing on here are related or pals with members of the coalition. Go and read the facts for yourselves. The people of Torfaen will not be fed the same rubbish by the coalition as Labour have fed us for years

Have people gone mad!!!!!It turns out the Coalition wanted a Conservative led Council to run Torfaen. Two points 1.Are certain Cllr\\\'s upset they never got their cabinet seat. 2.Have the people of the Valleys forgot what Thatcher did to Wales. PLAID want a Welsh run Wales but it takes time.Support them in moving Wales forward.

quote

THAT is complete rubbish!! The coalition is lead by INDEPENDENTS & DEPUTY AS INDEPENDENT! DO you know anything???

Post things which are true or dont bother posting at all . Post truths not nonsense!!

Oh and for the record young man, most of the coalition were *approached* and offered positions in exhange for voting for labour. I feel this speaks volumes! The Plaids and those 2 snakes were the only ones money and position lead to stab there voters in the back BY accepting. So when you say are they annoyed they didnt get there seats, read what i have posted... most WERE offered however their loyalty to their voters ment more.

jodie wrote:
Oh and for the record young man, most of the coalition were *approached* and offered positions in exhange for voting for labour. I feel this speaks volumes! The Plaids and those 2 snakes were the only ones money and position lead to stab there voters in the back BY accepting. So when you say are they annoyed they didnt get there seats, read what i have posted... most WERE offered however their loyalty to their voters ment more.

was the mayor and leader to be a tory.?

The person nominated for mayor was a long standing elegant lady Councillor. Indeed she is a Conservative. The Leader & Deputy Leader put forward were both Independent.

Its proportional representation, democracy is hardly shown on the current labour cabinet. They have followed the WA guildlines ONLY because the positions they gave to the famous five.

That is not democracy thats a pay as you vote!

Jodie wrote:
The person nominated for mayor was a long standing elegant lady Councillor. Indeed she is a Conservative. The Leader & Deputy Leader put forward were both Independent. Its proportional representation, democracy is hardly shown on the current labour cabinet. They have followed the WA guildlines ONLY because the positions they gave to the famous five. That is not democracy thats a pay as you vote!

Cllr. I do know that the tory party would have had the say in the coalition.Now stop trying to pull the wool.
Can you remember the tory days or were you to young?

jodie wrote:

wales4wales wrote:

Mr A Jones wrote:

Dan wrote:

jekyl wrote: Cllr Wildgust and many others seem to miss the obvious. Plaid have let no-one down. Their actions are completely in line with the national situation where they have formed a coalition with Labour. They would have been two faced had they done otherwise in a local situation as their voters could reasonably expect them to follow their national leadership. Cllr Wildgust wants 4500-5000 to sign a petition as 10% of the voting population of Torfaen. Have so many people left the borough or is he showing his true colours that he knows nothing about Torfaen? Cllr Wildgust also seems to think that women and young women in particular are unable to choose for themselves what they do. So we\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'ve got another sexist and ageist councillor - did we need another? What has Cllr Wildgust done so far to change issues that really bother us in North Torfaen - like the lak of 6th forms in our comprehensive schools? Or is he only going to work on issues which give him fame and make him sound like the new Llewelyn ap Gruffydd fighting for the rights of the people? Lets get on with the important issues and stop the petty squabbling.

This proves you have not been paying attentions. Cllr Wildgust is a NEW Councillor. You expect HIM to be responsible for the lack of 6th forms in Torfaen North?.... LABOUR and the OTHER local councillors have had PLENTY of time to tackle that problem. HAVE THEY? I admire mr wildgust for the bottle to fight when others are so clearly HIBERNATING! He gives me confidence for a future change. How about supporting HIM AND THE COALITION not GOAD them. ALL i predict is Mr wellington trying his best to buy and worm his way back in promising all sorts to people as he will STILL be in fear or loosing his position. REMEMBER ALL... there is another AGM in 11 months where IF PLAID realise the mistake they made, and then vote with the coalition, WELLINGTON and his labour lot will be out!! 11 months away! Come on you lot, stick with it, support the coaliton,show those famous five they did wrong and to vote with the COALITION in 11 months time!! Mark my words, Mr Wellington will pull out no stops over the next 11 months, but remember what hes done. DONT fall for it!!

You\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'ve got No Chance! I will be outraged if a conservative lead group get in next year!!!!! Sooner vote Raving Lunatic party in then that lot. They are not telling the truth and are using this website to advertise their views. I wouldn\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t be surprised if half of the people writing on here are related or pals with members of the coalition. Go and read the facts for yourselves. The people of Torfaen will not be fed the same rubbish by the coalition as Labour have fed us for years

Have people gone mad!!!!!It turns out the Coalition wanted a Conservative led Council to run Torfaen. Two points 1.Are certain Cllr\\\\\\\'s upset they never got their cabinet seat. 2.Have the people of the Valleys forgot what Thatcher did to Wales. PLAID want a Welsh run Wales but it takes time.Support them in moving Wales forward.

quote

THAT is complete rubbish!! The coalition is lead by INDEPENDENTS & DEPUTY AS INDEPENDENT! DO you know anything??? Post things which are true or dont bother posting at all . Post truths not nonsense!!

Post things which are true or dont bother posting at all . Post truths not nonsense!!

PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH

I have now investigated to discover the truth and it seems the Torfaen Peoples Coalition is lead by an Independent, Cllr Stuart Evans. The Deputy is also an independent, Cllr Elizabeth Haynes. I have asked my local Councillor about their nomination for Mayor. The reply was that they will always Strive for Proportional Representation throughout the Council and therefore it was only right & fair that others within the TPC were represented. Infact, it seems it was Plaid themselves who stated they would not support a Coalition IF the Leader & Deputy were anything but Independents.
It was also stated to me that Cllr Margaret Pead has been a Councillor for many years and has been the Leader of the Minority Group for many years. The nomination as Cllr Pead for Mayor was out of respect to her personal dedication to her work as a Cllr & Minority Leader for all those years. Anyone who thinks otherwise should really meet Cllr Pead and see for themselves how lovely and genuine a person she really is.
The Labour party have NEVER proposed anyone other than a LABOUR Councillor as Mayor. It was also a way for the TPC to prove their committment to Proportional Representation throughout. Have Labour ever considered this? Proportional representation IS a strong recommendation from the Welsh Assembly Government, which incidentally is Labour led. Have our LOCAL LABOUR RUN COUNCIL Listened to their chiefs? NO! I wonder why? Bingo Bob yet again wants to keep himself secure, by surrounding himself in "YES" muppets and not allowing something even his own Party STRONGLY Recommend!!!
THIS SPEAKS VOLUMES TO ME.
No wonder so many people voted to GET LABOUR OUT. Sadly, we have been let down by 5 people who have done nothing more than extract their pound of flesh whilst giving the "V" sign to all those that voted for change. My personal opinion is that they should stand down. At least they would get a little bit of respect back by seeing the error of their ways & stepping down from their position.
I am waiting to see what the TPC are going to do and I wait with baited breath. Lets hope the Scrutinise the Executive Members, Leader & Deputy Leader to the hilt.

wales4wales wrote:

Jodie wrote:
The person nominated for mayor was a long standing elegant lady Councillor. Indeed she is a Conservative. The Leader & Deputy Leader put forward were both Independent. Its proportional representation, democracy is hardly shown on the current labour cabinet. They have followed the WA guildlines ONLY because the positions they gave to the famous five. That is not democracy thats a pay as you vote!

Cllr. I do know that the tory party would have had the say in the coalition.Now stop trying to pull the wool.
Can you remember the tory days or were you to young?

of course they would have had a say,thats democracy for you. something labour needs to take lessons in.

As an independent councillor, I am free of any party whip and cannot be controlled by the restrictions of party policy. When I stood for the council my mandate was that I would work to secure better financial accountability, improved environmental management and where dubious or immoral decisions had been made I would root it out.



Well I tell the residents of Torfaen I stand by this pledge, over the past few weeks since the betrayal of the electorate by the 3 Plaid Cymru and 2 Independent Councillors, I have been working hard to establish the legal position and identify any realistic actions to take that would secure democracy for the residents of Torfaen.



I am not a career Councillor, it does not matter to me if I upset the status quo or people don’t like me…..What I have learnt over the past few weeks is that rhetoric is cheap, there is so much hot air spoken by Councillors it’s a wasted natural resource….. This is not my way, I consider, think, talk through then act….. What does matter to me is that the people who voted for me as a fighter and campaigner, see that their vote was not wasted.



To this end, at the end of June and in the first week of July I will be launching a Torfaen wide petition. It will commence with a rally from County Hall to the Civic Centre. I am currently working with supporters of my campaign to establish a network of petitioners, and campaign helpers. If you or group would like to support my actions to force Councillors to make a public decision on democracy, I ask you to contact me. All support is welcome, assistance is coming from the most unexpected of quarters. I personally thank all members of the coalition that support my action and Ian Williams of the Peoples Voice for his advice and counsel.



My message to the labour leadership is democracy is coming and you will have to work hard to hold it back….. And, when I have restored people faith in the electoral system, I will be moving on exposing any dubious practices that have occurred in the past.



Join the campaign, lets fight back and root out the charlatans……

"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear"....

...and I address this mainly to the "Independant Group Members" ...now there's a contradiction in terms..

Let me elay any fears that I am a Labour supporter or in fact any other
political supporter... far be it from me, baring in mind that I still
have the scars from when they stabbed me in the back!

On the face of it and the mis-reporting by the Argus (which they agreed
was as a result of incorrect information given to them initially), I
quite appreciate that the electorate will feel betrayed, I would feel
the same, however my decision when explained will I hope, prove to get
the best deal for democracy, which is what I promised to do - and to
achieve this I had to seize an opportunity to gain what is probably the
most important casting voting position in the County, which I intend to
use as a lever to get a fair deal for firstly my ward of Two Locks and
Henllys and ultimately for the rest of the County.

Following the election result, a meeting was called of all the political
parties and the Independants. At that first meeting I asked the question
who was going to run the council, when no answer came I then asked who
was qualified to run the council and who had any relevant experience. No
one came forward and it was evident from this that if no one was
prepared to present a suitable arguement then it was reasonable to
assume that there was no credible contender. I was asked by Councillor
Liz Haynes if I would like to lead the council and I immediately
responded saying "No, since I didn't have sufficient experience or
inclination."

At this point I left the meeting, feeling that the meeting was going
nowhere.

The remainder of the political parties and the Independants subsequently
agreed to form a group, which must ultimately be led by the largest
political party i.e. the Conservatives. I was then lobbied by Councillor
Fred Wildgust but I declined to join since I was keen to keep my
independance and not be tied by a group whip, but would work with anyone
in the best interests of democracy.

After various threats and some unsupported comments made in the press I
am wholly satisfied that I have made the right decision.

I then discussed the situation at length with Labour re-enforcing their
fragile position and the value of my one-off vote which would be
crucial, I considered that not changing the existing cabinet members to
be the least disruptive option - and setting personalities aside, it
cannot be denied that they had more experience in there relative posts
for the moment - laying out very strict conditions and making them aware
of my requests in respect of my own ward, an agreement was reached.

If you are prepared to think about what I am trying to achieve, you’ll
see it’s not to help Labour, but to establish a foothold where, they
need me more than I need them (and that applies to the opposition group
as well). Change doesn't happen overnight and applying the principal of
"fools rush in" I consider that this is a much better way of making a
council more accountable to the people, by the very fact that the
relationship is fragile, hence nothing can be taken for granted.

I knew that it would not be easy and that I would come under heavy
critisism until the plan ( which isn't rocket science...)could be
explained in full and this is in itself testimony as to how determined I
am to work for change. ..But you need a workable plan. I will work with
the rest of the non-labour group providing that they are prepared to do it

The Labour group are aware of their fragile position and have been
forced into listening since they can’t move left or right without my
input, and they are aware in no uncertain terms that if they try to
railroad items through that I do not agree with, then I will block them.
Gone are the days where decisions are taken for granted and to be fair
they have agreed to listen.

As a safe guard I have made it plain in no uncertain terms that if they
do not listen, I will simply remove the power of my vote, which is
considerable….and then end of Labour in Torfaen.

I have not signed any agreement with Labour ( a matter of Public Record).

I am not there to make political friends with Labour or anyone else in
fact, simply to get the best for the community and yes by any means,
which I have done and I have to say that I have achieved something good
for the ward, by siezing an opportunity that the others missed - which
has caused a few sour grapes comments, but in the game of politics its
about strong character and its either lead or get out of the way which
is what I have done - which is a matter of fact.

When things settle and the “festival atmosphere” dies down - and some of
these newly elected councillors present some sensible ideas and
proposals - and I do believe that there are some clever, talented and
good people amongst them, then I can look at making some changes.

But ultimately I am not prepared to be part of any group which could
potentially jepodise communities, services, peoples livelyhoods and a
budget of £240+ million by simply voting in a new crew of mainly
inexperienced new councillors and “experimenting” with the running of a
council.

As for the over zealous reporting of my committee membership, well there
is not much point in being a councillor if you have no useful voting
power or input… and if anyone thinks that I am a new wet behind the ears
kid that has been “granted” a bit of power by the Leader, who then runs
around shouting Yippee…then think again.

In reference to the jibes in the press that I have “sold out” for a few
thousand pounds over the basic salary that everyone gets, then those who
know me will tell you that I am not so badly off that I need to do
that…Furthermore, to support my motives bare in mind that I sat as a
councillor for five years without the allowances all councillors enjoy now.

In fairness to the Leader, Councillor Wellington has promised me that
the Labour Group will listen - I have re-enforced that they will have
to, since without my steadying and cautious casting vote they will cease
to be, which they well understand.

As for the comments of Councillor Wildgust, he is wrong, he is no longer
an Independant, since it is on record that he is a member of a group and
I would urge any one who doesn't believe that to go and find out for
themselves. Additionally I...and a growing number of sensible people
think that he has thrown his toys out of the cot because he didn't get
what he wanted, evident by the fact that he is now trying to raise a
futile effort of proportional representation.

I can take all the personal drivvel that he is more interested in
handing out but my advice to Councillor Wildgust is by all means carry
on campaigning and writing reams of text which all takes time, I on the
other hand am concentrating on the day to day job of trying to be an
effective councillor, the public will only put up with waffle for so
long....and so will the rest of "the group", some of whom are secretly
trying to distance themselves already. He needs to establish, does he
want to be a councillor or a political activist but if he continues then
he may wish to consider that if he chooses the latter then he should
couple his name with a warm air central heating system to come up with,
as his name implys - hot air....which is what people will forget him for.

I will not let my voters down. Sometimes you need a veiled or obscure
plan to achieve the obvious.

I’ll always listen and if you have any sensible ideas I’m always
prepared to discuss them and remember - nothing is cast in stone

This is the last communique on the matter.

Regards....except
I can't believe that sensible people could fail to realise that all the other councillors get £12k per year. And since Councillor Wildgust and the remainder of his Sour Grapes bunch have been quick to make an issue of ( which is thus far the only thing we have heard any of them speak on...) then presumably had they been committee members they would have "honourably" refused their allowances. Perhaps Councillor Wildgust and the others,as a matter of supreme principle ought to refuse their £12,000 that they are enjoyibg, since their time must be wholly taken up aligning themselves with the BNP, Tory's and anyone else that will whing with them, as the leaflet that was circulated suggested, which I have to say was very usefull, soft,strong and thoughly absorbent...a bit like Andrex really.

Tory's be warned, your new guys seem to have a bit of something about them which Torfaen needs but your head office are really going to love the liason you have got yourself into...I though you lot at least had more sense, come and talk.

Its only a point in respect of Michelle of Pentwyn's "true investigation" of facts, where did you get your information from? Because on the surface it does look as if its from the archive of the real leader of the Torfaen Peoples Coalition, Mr Wildgust, of whom I have to say, on the surface seems to do little else than complain like a spoilt child.

I seem to recall that Mr Derek Rex was an Independant and was elected as Mayor during the final few years of Torfaen Borough Council.

Initially I felt betrayed at my councillors actions which I must say was clouded and fueled after reading some of the articles in the press, but having had time to think and having read Councillor Cunningtons reply I now think that the five councillors concerned have made the right decision and I am happy to support them.

What actual policies, proposals and plans do the Torfaen Peoples Coalition have and how would they pay and operate them, since as yet all they seem to do is write endless articles in the press which would suggest that they are not attending to their duties.

Finally, do they get any allowances as councillors.

H.

harry wrote:
Its only a point in respect of Michelle of Pentwyn\\\'s \\\"true investigation\\\" of facts, where did you get your information from? Because on the surface it does look as if its from the archive of the real leader of the Torfaen Peoples Coalition, Mr Wildgust, of whom I have to say, on the surface seems to do little else than complain like a spoilt child. I seem to recall that Mr Derek Rex was an Independant and was elected as Mayor during the final few years of Torfaen Borough Council. Initially I felt betrayed at my councillors actions which I must say was clouded and fueled after reading some of the articles in the press, but having had time to think and having read Councillor Cunningtons reply I now think that the five councillors concerned have made the right decision and I am happy to support them. What actual policies, proposals and plans do the Torfaen Peoples Coalition have and how would they pay and operate them, since as yet all they seem to do is write endless articles in the press which would suggest that they are not attending to their duties. Finally, do they get any allowances as councillors. H.

I can clarify that the leader of the TPC is not Cllr Wildgust. It is Cllr Stuart Evans, with Deputy being Cllr Elizabeth Haynes. The plans and proposals we had in place if we had taken over the council were beneficial to the people of Torfaen.

Obviously decisions of certain individuals prevented this from happening. Our aims would have been welcomed by the people of Torfaen in reducing wasteage of Council money, and inputting it into areas where needed!However until such as time when we honorably take the leading position, those changes we wanted will NOT happen with the current labour run Council. I trust over the next year certain councillors will look after their Ward rather than their chair, reflect on their actions and take responsibility for the back lash. I am first and foremost a Councillor for my Ward, secondly I am part of TPC where we want Democracy and a Transparent Council.

I admire Cllr Wildgusts passion in wanting change. Situations will not improve if we sit back and accept what happens around us.

May I suggest people think before goading when they do not know the TRUE facts, or indeed been told one sided stories. What happened on May 22nd was NOT in the peoples interest, those responsible know who they are, if they move aside the arrogance for one moment, they will READ the posts and LISTEN.

Time to move on and move forward, learning from this. Knowing those who are genuine, and those few who found it hard to resist temptation.

I look forward to the coming year.

"Following the election result, a meeting was called of all the political
parties and the Independants. At that first meeting I asked the question
who was going to run the council, when no answer came I then asked who
was qualified to run the council and who had any relevant experience. No
one came forward and it was evident from this that if no one was
prepared to present a suitable arguement then it was reasonable to
assume that there was no credible contender. I was asked by Councillor
Liz Haynes if I would like to lead the council and I immediately
responded saying "No, since I didn't have sufficient experience or
inclination"


WHAT A LOAD OF CLAPTRAP. INFACT YOU INSINUATED TO THE LEADER TO CLEAR HIS DESK BECAUSE IT WAS GOING TO BE YOURS !" DIDNT QUITE WORK TO YOUR PLAN DID IT, STAMPED YOUR FEET TO TRY AND GET YOUR WAY. YOU DIDNT GET YOUR WAY SO YOU WAGGLED OVER TO VOTE WITH LABOUR.... DNT TRY PULLING THE WOOL.

I WONDER IF THE MINUTES OF THAT MEETING CLARIFYS YOUR STATEMENT.... I will contact the group to see if i am able to obtain a copy to see if indeed you have elaborated. Watch this space.... LETS see HOW much hot air you are blowing mr cunnington. I know for sure Cllr Haynes did NOT ask you if you would like to lead the council,that is completly untrue! You were asked who you thought would be a good candidate to lead. TUT TUT Mr Cunnington, you know what they say... you need a good memory.

I wasted my vote on you, NEVER will I again.

I'm sorry cllr cunnington but you've done nothing with your post other than confirm what a pretencious, jumped up twerp you really are. 'The Labour group are aware of their fragile position and have been
forced into listening since they can’t move left or right without my
input' and 'since without my steadying and cautious casting vote they will cease
to be' oh please get a load of yourself and maybe if you removed your head from your arse for 5 mins you'd realise that the world doesn't revolve around you and there are other people that also have a casting vote. Cllr's with attitudes such as yours are the reason this council recieved such a heavy loss on May 1st and why so many people are angry that through the back door those same people - including yourself - have been put back in a position of power, by being bribed which infers corruption as far as i'm concerned, and once you open yourself up to being bought you will forever be put in that position and have lost all credibility forever. what would happen Cllr if Labour decided to pull down your local primary school and in return for your vote offered you another position with more money again - even if you voted yes because you thought it was a good idea no one would ever believe that to be the case. you have achieved nothing other than send yourself down a cul de sac from which you can not get out of.

Yours is not the brightest comment of the week Mr Walker is it.

I think that you are going to need some help with your reasoning, and I shouldn't take it from the lemon that fed you this.

Now working on the principal that only a fool comments without knowing the facts and I'm not suggesting that you are a fool, others can decide that)

Point 1) You have made the statement :
"I know for sure Cllr Haynes did NOT ask you if you would like to lead the council,that is completly untrue!"... now the only way that you could be "sure" was if you witnessed that statement yourself, otherwise you must have been told it incorrectly by someone who was there...Mr Walker, where were you sat during the meeting, I can't seem to remember you being there.

Point 2) The "conversation" with the leader....where were you stood, when this took place and you witnessed it first hand, I can't recall any conversation in front of or in earshot of anyone, perhaps you can back it up with fact?

Point 3)...and this is the bit that you will have to pay attention on : Had I, orin fact anyone had a conversation which went the way you suggest, then the last thing that I or any sane ( or insane)person would conceivably have done, would be to have voted "with" him....can you see where this is heading Mr Walker...so I suggest that if you are going to make daft statements like this, at least think about them first.

I will watch this space, since if anyone produces minutes from that meeting, then they will have produced them without consent, since the decision was taken not to record minutes as the meeting was informal.

I suggest that the rest of you statement is wholly fictional based on untrue facts, which you and I know to be the case.

If you can tell me where you personally witnessed this conversation, giving the date, the time and the location I would be grateful...or perhaps your memory isn't so good either...

I read the comments by Councillor Cunnington. He his acting like the cat who's got the cream . It will be the voters who elected him who will be the judge and jury and it will be the same voters who will kick him out and this same meassage applys to all councillors.Its just unfortunate we did'nt know his true colours before May 1st .Then we could have all voted Labour and saved him the trouble .

"I will watch this space, since if anyone produces minutes from that meeting, then they will have produced them without consent, since the decision was taken not to record minutes as the meeting was informal."


Worried now are you, the fact that there could be evidence to prove you elaborated the event. I think the phrase " then they will have produced them without consent" says it all. You see Alistar people can see right through you, not for one minute do we belive you did it for the "best" more like personal gain and a chair position. If you are so well off then decline the payment for your chair...... Hmmm funny i DONT think you will! WONDER WHY.

Your justifications and exaggerations are wasted. Hope your chair fits snug, in 4yrs i predict it wont. HAPPY DAYS.

Point 2) The "conversation" with the leader....where were you stood, when this took place and you witnessed it first hand, I can't recall any conversation in front of or in earshot of anyone, perhaps you can back it up with fact?

You didnt deny the conversation took place.. 1-0

Point 1) You have made the statement :
"I know for sure Cllr Haynes did NOT ask you if you would like to lead the council,that is completly untrue!"... now the only way that you could be "sure" was if you witnessed that statement yourself, otherwise you must have been told it incorrectly by someone who was there...Mr Walker, where were you sat during the meeting, I can't seem to remember you being there.


AGAIN you didnt reply with a reasonable answer, there were 17 others at the meeting... hmm let me see which one shall i ask to confirm!

2-0 !



not doing very well are we Alistair. You seem to be avoiding directly answering. Exactly the behaviour I DONT want as my Councillor.

I REST MY CASE!

I was directed to this website a little while ago and have been reading all comments made. I had no intention of posting here but, now that I have been directly named, I feel I have to put right a few misleading statements.

Firstly, Cllr Cunnington did not attend any of the Independent meetings and only attended 1 Coalition Meeting. Minutes were taken at most of our meetings by our acting secretary.

At no point, in the only meeting Mr Cunnington attended, did I ask him if he wanted to be Leader of the Coalition. This did not happen. Infact, Mr Cunnington left the meeting at the end by stating that he had done what he came to do which was to cause disruption. He then got up and left.

There is also 1 other point I would like to clarify. Mr Cunninton states that his 1 vote can make all the difference. He implies it is a reason he voted with Labour. The balance of the council presently stands at 21 Torfaen Coalition to Labour/Plaid/2 independents at 23. Should Mr Cunnington decide to vote against Labour (and with TPC), the result would be 22/22. The Elected LABOUR Mayor would then have the casting vote. Mr Cunningtons 1 vote is not AS important as stated. His single vote can change nothing without the support of 1 other in their group. To quote Mr Cunnington from a statement above... In fairness to the Leader, Councillor Wellington has promised me that
the Labour Group will listen - I have re-enforced that they will have
to, since without my steadying and cautious casting vote they will cease
to be, which they well understand.
As you can see, Mr Cunnington thinks he has some control over Labour, and has a casting vote. Please note that the Labour Mayor will always have the casting vote in the scenario that Mr Cunnington decides to vote against Labour. He is not in such a strong position as he implies.

To end, I have no axe to grind here. I am just posting to defend my name as I seem to have been dragged into something I did not wish to participate in.

I am disappointed for the Residents, who had given us the opportunity to make huge changes within Torfaen. I will continue to work hard for my Residents and can be contacted via email, msn messenger, telephone and at my ward Surgery at Greenmeasdow & St Dials Community Hall on the 3rd Saturday of every month at 2pm.
I am looking forward to the next 4 years and will work hard for Residents.

all of this banter between Cllrs is more than welcomed here because it provides the voters with an ample opportunity to experience first hand the severe lack of transparency and un-democratic behaviour commited by various individuals who run our lives.
It also is detracting from the point - we voted labour out and they still remain in power. We the voters made a clear statement and despite what certain individuals may believe is the best form of action for the people of torfaen, it is the very people who are the ones who should decide and then live by their decisions - otherwise we would be living in an ELECTED DICTATORSHIP not a DEMOCRACY. If Cllr Wildgust is the only person who is willing to take physical action to recognise this point instead of procrastinating about what should be done then all who want their votes to be recognised should support him (or any other group of people that are willing to make a stand...any takers....?)

Totally agree Carys, people coming on here trying to twist the facts to make themselves look better, when infact the above posts PROVE other wise. Thanks Councillor Haynes for your posting, his attempts to justify his actions fell on deaf ears anyway. I feel the phrase Pinochioo will apply to him now. I am thankfull Clr Wildgust is proactive which is they type of people we need. We remain firm and united in backing the TCP and any demonstration rallys organised. Its time to make a stand!

EVERYONE! Im not sure how much longer this forum will remain open so I suggest this debate should continue on a website specifically designed for it: www.torfaen4us.co.uk
, for info about the up and coming fight for democracy in our county.

Hopefully c u all there!

Well done Labour for retaining control of the Council. Clearly the opposition could not agree to power sharing so labour showed them how it should be done.Hopefully this will give the Council some stability to geton with the job of governing and by those with experience and ability rather than by an unfocused rabble of an opposition.

Yes Mr Turner Labour did show them how to do it.
Labour said to the other partyes and all of the electorate in Torfaen, don'y worry we'll completely mess up the borough and completely ignore the elecorates wishes, all you need to get into power is bribery.
It's all in the maths
Torfaen Labour Party = ignorant bribers,
Says a lot that you are proud of this doesn't it.
no wonder you voted in a such a loser as Bob Wellington to be leader.

John Turner wrote:
Well done Labour for retaining control of the Council. Clearly the opposition could not agree to power sharing so labour showed them how it should be done.Hopefully this will give the Council some stability to geton with the job of governing and by those with experience and ability rather than by an unfocused rabble of an opposition.

Yes John Turner we all remember your efforts.

Remember the School that could not be fitted in the site you picked, having paid our money for parcels of land.

Some Fact for readers of this site.
Labour 18 seats
Independents 13 seats
Conservative 5 seats
Plaid 3 seats
People's Voice 3 seats
Lib Dem's 2 seats
In my book the majority democratic vote for Torfaen was for Labour
PR for Local Government can only be granted via a change of law from Westminster Government possibly with a recomendation from the Welsh Assembly as they voted on having this law making power last week and the vote lost Torfaen is not likely to have PR for a long time so check out these facts and then see how far the petition goes.

A few more facts
Members and supporters of TPC who were members of the Labour Party most who failed the Labour Party selection process to become a Councillor, starting from the top of the Borough
Brian Whitcombe
Wayne Tomlinson
Ron Jones
Ian Williams
Mike Jeremiah
Ron Burnett need I say more?

Mightier than the sword, sounds as if your a Labour supporter? I wonder why the Labour party kept the same leader even though his influencial decision making CUT services to the Torfaen resident, raised taxes and HALVED the amount of Labour councillors some facts to go with your stats;
18 councillors out of 44 = 40.9%
leaving 59.1% of the elecorate wanting Labour or probably mor e likely, Bob Wellington out.

What has your second comment got to do with the price of milk?

The people of Torfaen voted those councillors in.

With reference to the above comment about me not being selected by the Labour Party. For the Council Elections . I had been for the record but I could'nt stomach them any longer .I made it easy for the Labour ward by resigning before they did any more damage to me and the community . Take note the other Five .

mightier than the sword wrote:
Some Fact for readers of this site. Labour 18 seats Independents 13 seats Conservative 5 seats Plaid 3 seats People's Voice 3 seats Lib Dem's 2 seats In my book the majority democratic vote for Torfaen was for Labour PR for Local Government can only be granted via a change of law from Westminster Government possibly with a recomendation from the Welsh Assembly as they voted on having this law making power last week and the vote lost Torfaen is not likely to have PR for a long time so check out these facts and then see how far the petition goes.

Prior to 1st May, Labour held 34 seats. They LOST 16 seats at the Election.
Let me just ask the Labour Party....What are you doing supporting Bob McGabe when he has obviously lost the peoples support & trust? All you LABOUR people are prepared to go down with the sinking ship named BobMcgabe? Seriously Labour people.....you should consider your futures and make a stand now. Your signing your own political death certificate by supporting the Leader whos going down the chute.

mightier than the sword wrote:
A few more facts Members and supporters of TPC who were members of the Labour Party most who failed the Labour Party selection process to become a Councillor, starting from the top of the Borough Brian Whitcombe Wayne Tomlinson Ron Jones Ian Williams Mike Jeremiah Ron Burnett need I say more?

I am wondering what you are refering too with your name? " mightier than the sword" I guess you are refering to BRIBERY.

Labour should 'seriously consider' ditching Gordon Brown following the Henley by-election drubbing, Lord Levy has said.


They should start lower down first....eradicate the scum from the bottom. Torfaen Labour should boot out Bob Wellington. The man is sailing local Labour into a black cave to drown.

The so called Rainbow Alliance mixes "true socialists" Peoples Voice with Tories and one issue whingers. It is an insult to those who dragged South africa from apartheid to call this rag bag of opportunists the Rainbow Alliance.

Torfaen needs strong political leadership and guidance ot by 2012 there will b e no Torfaen.

LENIN - you really should not comment unless you have met some of the Coalition. I have made a point of meeting them at public meetings held recently. They are a different breed to the existing regime that, lets face the facts, us people VOTED out.
They bring fresh youthful ideas, a whole range of different experiences and a grounding that inspires me to support them.
So far, I have seen a select few of this Coalition, working hard for their residents. Criticise when you have proof. Dont criticise for the sake of it. It comes across as petty and pathetic. Give them a chance. If they dont deliver, then have a go. Until then, belt up.....please.

Len Inn wrote:
The so called Rainbow Alliance mixes "true socialists" Peoples Voice with Tories and one issue whingers. It is an insult to those who dragged South africa from apartheid to call this rag bag of opportunists the Rainbow Alliance. Torfaen needs strong political leadership and guidance ot by 2012 there will b e no Torfaen.

That was one of the most pathetic goading attempts i have read since Cunningtons ramblings. It clearly shows over half of the residents in Torfaen did not want a Labour run Council. The votes indicated that.
What Torfaen needs are Genuine,Transparent,
Hardworking,Honest Councillors.... Opps my mistake we now have them, namely the TPC.aka Rainbow Coalition. For once Council decisions will be challenged.About time.

I'm ashamed to be a lifelong Labour voter after reading my copy of Torfaen Matters and seeing this outrage in black and white. EVERY significant post in the council taken, sorry, stolen by Labour councillors. Even the mega crook Wellington gets himself back in post.He's promised he will listen - huh, why change the habits of a lifetime. My god he must be feeling smug right now. As for John Turner's comments - New Inn voters certainly showed you what they thought of you didn't they!!! I'm sickened, disgusted and ashamed of the party I vote for. Time for a change.

Groucho. Your not alone. Labour lost alot of seats at the local elections. I am positive thay will lose MANY more in 4 yrs time. Lifelong supporter are disgusted at their behaviour and the disregard for democracy. I hope the petition can accomplish something substantial. The sheep within the Labour group need to wake up and smell the roses. By continuing to follow Cllr Wellington, they are putting their political careers on the line. They all need to realise that they are being led by a man who is hated by the masses, lost them almost 50% of their seats and continues to force undemocratic decisions through.

A MESSAGE TO ALL:

LETS GET WELLINGTON OUT OF OFFICE, WHATEVER THE COST, BECAUSE WELLINGTON HAS COST TORFAEN A LOT.
WELLINGTON HAS LED A LABOUR DICTATORSHIP WHICH HAS RIPPED TORFAEN APART.
DON'T LET THIS MATTER DROP. KEEP FIGHTING FOR DEMOCRACY IN TORFAEN - DON'T LET TIME PACIFY!

Ha ha - its just occurred to me that apart from sending out thugs and troops to beat and torture Torfaeneans, this election bears a striking resemblance to the one held in Zimbabwe!! Torfaen Council holds the election, doesn't like the result, they've lost the vote so they fiddle it to stay in power. No doubt our beating will come via a huge council tax bill next year. Maybe we should twin town with Harare!