Dragons plan move to new training base (From Free Press Series)

pooles says...
10:43am Sat 2 Mar 13

Deep joy - A bumper season next year then

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Goldy_Lookin_Clart says...
11:50am Sat 2 Mar 13

Erm, heard this before with the move to Bettws Comp like.

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Mr Bump. says...
12:00pm Sat 2 Mar 13

Will they still be in existence then? They are nothing more than a waste of everyones time and money.

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Robert Shillabeer says...
7:49pm Sat 2 Mar 13

This new development is a state of the art facility with facilities not available elsewhere. The Dragons are only one of several organisations who will use it and the Dragons will use it not pay for it. I think it's an asset that means better facilities for the community at large so it's a good thing.

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Dai the Milk says...
8:20pm Sat 2 Mar 13

It takes a state-of-the-art training facility to wrench the Newport Dragons out of Newport into greater Gwent for the first time in ten years. Maybe if they had been more truly 'regional' and inclusive they may have still been in with a shout of survival. This leaves a very bitter taste.

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foxy3rd says...
10:47pm Sat 2 Mar 13

It's the only way the Dragons will get anywhere,on a bandwagon.

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Game says...
4:23am Sun 3 Mar 13

Dai the Milk wrote:
It takes a state-of-the-art training facility to wrench the Newport Dragons out of Newport into greater Gwent for the first time in ten years. Maybe if they had been more truly 'regional' and inclusive they may have still been in with a shout of survival. This leaves a very bitter taste.

At least be accurate with your posts. Dragons have played games in Gwent and have trained around the region. Why, if you dislike the Dragons so much would you read the Dragons news? Seem a bit of a sad act to me.

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Dai the Milk says...
9:15am Sun 3 Mar 13

Game wrote:

Dai the Milk wrote:
It takes a state-of-the-art training facility to wrench the Newport Dragons out of Newport into greater Gwent for the first time in ten years. Maybe if they had been more truly 'regional' and inclusive they may have still been in with a shout of survival. This leaves a very bitter taste.
At least be accurate with your posts. Dragons have played games in Gwent and have trained around the region. Why, if you dislike the Dragons so much would you read the Dragons news? Seem a bit of a sad act to me.

Apart from 'trial' games against Premiership squads (once a year) please tell me where they have staged games outside Rodney Parade? I had to laugh when you added they have trained around the region. Why? To use opposition Premier sides again as cannon fodder in the scrum? And how many potential fans did they gain on those occasions? Laughable. The answer to your last question is simple really. Ever since its inception I have predicted the end of the Dragons because of the duplicitous and selfish way it was founded. I believe in the creation of a side which is either truly regional or at least a truly representative side (be it a club or whatever). This monstrosity is neither. It is a Newport first team masquerading under the banner of a region in order to win supporters. Look at their kit for example. It says it is NEWPORT gwent dragons. As a result of this mongrel creation it alienates Newport supporters and fails to attract valley support as well. By trying to be both and failing, it becomes neither. Time to be honest, sink or swim. The problem is, the Newport management know it will sink if it reverts to Newport only so the scam was worth giving it a go. By the way, are you advocating you can only read sites of sides you support. Nothing sad about that. You should try it. It broadens your horizons and stops you being blinkered.

[quote][p][bold]Game[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dai the Milk[/bold] wrote: It takes a state-of-the-art training facility to wrench the Newport Dragons out of Newport into greater Gwent for the first time in ten years. Maybe if they had been more truly 'regional' and inclusive they may have still been in with a shout of survival. This leaves a very bitter taste.[/p][/quote]At least be accurate with your posts. Dragons have played games in Gwent and have trained around the region. Why, if you dislike the Dragons so much would you read the Dragons news? Seem a bit of a sad act to me.[/p][/quote]Apart from 'trial' games against Premiership squads (once a year) please tell me where they have staged games outside Rodney Parade? I had to laugh when you added they have trained around the region. Why? To use opposition Premier sides again as cannon fodder in the scrum? And how many potential fans did they gain on those occasions? Laughable. The answer to your last question is simple really. Ever since its inception I have predicted the end of the Dragons because of the duplicitous and selfish way it was founded. I believe in the creation of a side which is either truly regional or at least a truly representative side (be it a club or whatever). This monstrosity is neither. It is a Newport first team masquerading under the banner of a region in order to win supporters. Look at their kit for example. It says it is NEWPORT gwent dragons. As a result of this mongrel creation it alienates Newport supporters and fails to attract valley support as well. By trying to be both and failing, it becomes neither. Time to be honest, sink or swim. The problem is, the Newport management know it will sink if it reverts to Newport only so the scam was worth giving it a go. By the way, are you advocating you can only read sites of sides you support. Nothing sad about that. You should try it. It broadens your horizons and stops you being blinkered. Dai the Milk

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exilemike says...
9:51am Sun 3 Mar 13

I think you will find without "newport" this venture would have sunk years ago.as I have consistently said over the years those who want different ownership of this "failure" please come forward and take it elsewhere.It seems to me it will continually decline and like anything unloved finally cease to exist.People have had ten years to make something of it and as we all know every season it gets worse.No amount of tinkering will help it only raise supporter expectations before dashing them once again.

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Dai the Milk says...
11:17am Sun 3 Mar 13

Exilemike, I agree. Without 'NEWPORT' it would have sunk years ago. No-one else wanted to be part of a NEWPORT team masquerading as a regional side. It was built on sand since day one with thousands of spurious signatures obtained outside a library, the majority of whom wouldn't have known the game was played with an oval-shaped ball. What a mess. Some people will do their damndest to hang onto power at all costs.

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Robert Shillabeer says...
12:02pm Sun 3 Mar 13

Dai are you from Newport or the Valleys? Sounds very much like the old old tale of someone from the valleys being snubbed so constantly right rubbish about a side they wont support even if they paid millions to do so.

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exilemike says...
12:26pm Sun 3 Mar 13

The problem was people wanted to eradicate newport from the rugby map.Instead of building on what Newport, thanks greatly to Tony Brown,had and were achieving in Newport and the surrounding areas, someone decided it wasn't inclusive enough and felt the need to start from scratch.So yes it was build on sand and alienated a lot of people and ensured Newport Rfc ,one of the world's oldest and greatest clubs ,for all intend and purposes existed in name only.It also didn't attract new suppporters,new blood and started the steady decline to where we are today.no legacy, not performing,unwanted and unloved.From what I know of Regional rugby in this area there is little too build on and if it ceased to be would not be missed.A complete overall top to bottom is required but that won't happen it is far too late..But if truth be told it went wrong on day one in not recognizing and building on the brand called NEWPORT.

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Dai the Milk says...
1:06pm Sun 3 Mar 13

Robert Shillabeer wrote:
Dai are you from Newport or the Valleys? Sounds very much like the old old tale of someone from the valleys being snubbed so constantly right rubbish about a side they wont support even if they paid millions to do so.

Robert, I'm from Gwent but would support a truly representative club side if that was the democratic decision. Does that answer your question (and destroy your theory)?

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Dai the Milk says...
1:32pm Sun 3 Mar 13

exilemike wrote:
The problem was people wanted to eradicate newport from the rugby map.Instead of building on what Newport, thanks greatly to Tony Brown,had and were achieving in Newport and the surrounding areas, someone decided it wasn't inclusive enough and felt the need to start from scratch.So yes it was build on sand and alienated a lot of people and ensured Newport Rfc ,one of the world's oldest and greatest clubs ,for all intend and purposes existed in name only.It also didn't attract new suppporters,new blood and started the steady decline to where we are today.no legacy, not performing,unwanted and unloved.From what I know of Regional rugby in this area there is little too build on and if it ceased to be would not be missed.A complete overall top to bottom is required but that won't happen it is far too late..But if truth be told it went wrong on day one in not recognizing and building on the brand called NEWPORT.

Exilemike, I admire your passion for the club but NEWPORT is no more a brand than any of the other ten founding clubs of the WRU, one of which is also a Gwent club. You cannot expect the Newport club to stand alone whilst others are being made to amalgamate, though it is very arguable that neither Llanelli nor Cardiff amalgamated with anyone. That is why I describe it as a mess. We have 2 clubs saying they are regions when they patently are not and never have been. We have one side combined from two clubs which is a semi-success and we have one monstrosity in Gwent which is neither a stand-alone nor a combined side. Let's be honest, none of them is a region. That is farcical. In the south of France, Perpignan is accepted as the club side representing a true region (Catalonia). It is supported by French and Spanish people who have an association with the region of Catalonia. In Ireland we have four true regions. How the hell can anyone argue the M4 corridor is four regions? It is farcical and it was farcical from day one. It was done to appease people, even to try to con people but it has failed miserably. Perhaps there is an argument for saying there are three regions, north Wales, east and west. Maybe, but four regions along a 60 mile stretch of motorway? Laughable. It should also be pointed out that Newport's fleeting moment of success, founded as you say on the money of Mr Brown and his Bisley company, hardly justifies it as THE club to represent Gwent. There are a few more clubs in Gwent who would argue strongly against that if you use 'success' as the criteria......Merit Tables, Championships etc. Just trying to be fair to all parties.

[quote][p][bold]exilemike[/bold] wrote: The problem was people wanted to eradicate newport from the rugby map.Instead of building on what Newport, thanks greatly to Tony Brown,had and were achieving in Newport and the surrounding areas, someone decided it wasn't inclusive enough and felt the need to start from scratch.So yes it was build on sand and alienated a lot of people and ensured Newport Rfc ,one of the world's oldest and greatest clubs ,for all intend and purposes existed in name only.It also didn't attract new suppporters,new blood and started the steady decline to where we are today.no legacy, not performing,unwanted and unloved.From what I know of Regional rugby in this area there is little too build on and if it ceased to be would not be missed.A complete overall top to bottom is required but that won't happen it is far too late..But if truth be told it went wrong on day one in not recognizing and building on the brand called NEWPORT.[/p][/quote]Exilemike, I admire your passion for the club but NEWPORT is no more a brand than any of the other ten founding clubs of the WRU, one of which is also a Gwent club. You cannot expect the Newport club to stand alone whilst others are being made to amalgamate, though it is very arguable that neither Llanelli nor Cardiff amalgamated with anyone. That is why I describe it as a mess. We have 2 clubs saying they are regions when they patently are not and never have been. We have one side combined from two clubs which is a semi-success and we have one monstrosity in Gwent which is neither a stand-alone nor a combined side. Let's be honest, none of them is a region. That is farcical. In the south of France, Perpignan is accepted as the club side representing a true region (Catalonia). It is supported by French and Spanish people who have an association with the region of Catalonia. In Ireland we have four true regions. How the hell can anyone argue the M4 corridor is four regions? It is farcical and it was farcical from day one. It was done to appease people, even to try to con people but it has failed miserably. Perhaps there is an argument for saying there are three regions, north Wales, east and west. Maybe, but four regions along a 60 mile stretch of motorway? Laughable. It should also be pointed out that Newport's fleeting moment of success, founded as you say on the money of Mr Brown and his Bisley company, hardly justifies it as THE club to represent Gwent. There are a few more clubs in Gwent who would argue strongly against that if you use 'success' as the criteria......Merit Tables, Championships etc. Just trying to be fair to all parties. Dai the Milk

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SWBorderer says...
2:01pm Sun 3 Mar 13

Dai, whilst I can agree that the whole set up was a farce from the start, I take exception to your comment that there was another "Gwent" club apart from Newport at the founding meeting. I take it you are referring to Pontypool, and like so many of the truly uninformed you have not recognised that Chepstow was also present at that meeting, and actually is the oldest club with continual membership of the WRU.

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Dai the Milk says...
3:44pm Sun 3 Mar 13

SWBorderer, You're quite correct. There were in fact three clubs present but I was implying only one other could have been a possible option of the franchise at the time of Moffett's decision. Great club Chepstow by the way. Doing a great job.

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Goldy_Lookin_Clart says...
3:58pm Sun 3 Mar 13

Boyz boyz, lets summarise the first four months of the Dragons:

1. Run by Ebbw Vale RFC, through the chuckle brothers/
2. Bankrupted by Ebbw Vale RFC on around xmas 2003.
3. Bought out of receivership by Newport RFC, through Mr Brown. for £1 with a 50/50 ownership between NRFC and WRU.

So you are quite correct Dai regionalism never worked from top to bottom of the Ebbw.

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Robert Shillabeer says...
8:40pm Sun 3 Mar 13

Dai the Milk wrote:

Robert Shillabeer wrote:
Dai are you from Newport or the Valleys? Sounds very much like the old old tale of someone from the valleys being snubbed so constantly right rubbish about a side they wont support even if they paid millions to do so.
Robert, I'm from Gwent but would support a truly representative club side if that was the democratic decision. Does that answer your question (and destroy your theory)?

Frankly NO, I'm from Gwent is no answer to the question but does indicate that your probably not from Newport or you would have said so. I'm from Gwent and from Cwm originally, I was born in the Rookery in Ebbw Vale so have a valley background and supported Ebbw Vales as a youngster. Now I'm a season ticket holder for both the Dragons and Newport RFC. So I ask again are you from Newport or the valley?

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Keith Barnett says...
9:50pm Sun 3 Mar 13

Take the 'Gwent' out of it and end the arguments

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Robert Shillabeer says...
12:36am Mon 4 Mar 13

It shows that there are a few people from outside Newport who just enjoy the Dragons losing because it gives them the chance to have a go at the concept of regional rugby. It is impossible to have more than four or perhaps five regional sides simply because the rugby supporting population is not there. Gwent has enough to support a regional side if it was managed better and the very old feelings were put aside. There are some though who no matter what s done won't become regional supporters because of old wounds.

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Dai the Milk says...
8:33am Mon 4 Mar 13

Robert Shillabeer wrote:

Dai the Milk wrote:

Robert Shillabeer wrote:
Dai are you from Newport or the Valleys? Sounds very much like the old old tale of someone from the valleys being snubbed so constantly right rubbish about a side they wont support even if they paid millions to do so.
Robert, I'm from Gwent but would support a truly representative club side if that was the democratic decision. Does that answer your question (and destroy your theory)?
Frankly NO, I'm from Gwent is no answer to the question but does indicate that your probably not from Newport or you would have said so. I'm from Gwent and from Cwm originally, I was born in the Rookery in Ebbw Vale so have a valley background and supported Ebbw Vales as a youngster. Now I'm a season ticket holder for both the Dragons and Newport RFC. So I ask again are you from Newport or the valley?

I'm from Gwent. It means the same to me.

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Robert Shillabeer says...
10:25am Mon 4 Mar 13

Dai the Milk wrote:

Robert Shillabeer wrote:

Dai the Milk wrote:

Robert Shillabeer wrote:
Dai are you from Newport or the Valleys? Sounds very much like the old old tale of someone from the valleys being snubbed so constantly right rubbish about a side they wont support even if they paid millions to do so.
Robert, I'm from Gwent but would support a truly representative club side if that was the democratic decision. Does that answer your question (and destroy your theory)?
Frankly NO, I'm from Gwent is no answer to the question but does indicate that your probably not from Newport or you would have said so. I'm from Gwent and from Cwm originally, I was born in the Rookery in Ebbw Vale so have a valley background and supported Ebbw Vales as a youngster. Now I'm a season ticket holder for both the Dragons and Newport RFC. So I ask again are you from Newport or the valley?
I'm from Gwent. It means the same to me.

Your answer says it all Dai, your not from Newport so anything that makes the Dragons seem bad suits you and your constant Daragons hating comments, enough said I think don't you?

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Dai the Milk says...
4:46pm Mon 4 Mar 13

What you're saying Robert is that the Dragons are only a Newport team then? I, like thousands of others, both in Newport and outside Newport, hate, yes hate, the monster that has been created. The way it was created, the way it is being run (your own posts have finally indicated you agree with this part) and the way it is masquerading as a regional side. I think you will find I am not alone in thinking this. Surely the dwindling size of your crowd must tell you something. What do the people of Cwm think about the set-up? I bet you don't bump into many ex neighbours at the games?

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Raging Bull says...
4:50pm Mon 4 Mar 13

As a gwent rugby fan I support the dragons as do the rest of my family.However the only merchandise I will buy for myself or any members of my family is the merchandise than does not have N**port splashed on it.Dragons and the dragons tail symbol fine.How much income is our region losing because of this.Gwent Dragons every time N**port NEVER!!!

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Robert Shillabeer says...
5:21pm Mon 4 Mar 13

Raging Bull wrote:
As a gwent rugby fan I support the dragons as do the rest of my family.However the only merchandise I will buy for myself or any members of my family is the merchandise than does not have N**port splashed on it.Dragons and the dragons tail symbol fine.How much income is our region losing because of this.Gwent Dragons every time N**port NEVER!!!

I agree the Newport bit does put quite a few people off buying some merchandise. I have some Gwent Dragons and simply the dragon emblemed stuff but it is getting harder to get them these days. But wont cut my nose off about it. Rep shirts have the full name on it because the regions name is Newport Gwent Dragons other stuff simply has the regions emblem on it. Until the name is changed to Gwent Dragons it won't change the level of out of Newport support but I suspect the name change may never come.

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kalwales@hotmail.com says...
5:41pm Mon 4 Mar 13

You guys are by far the best at cheering me up :-)

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Keith Barnett says...
6:40pm Mon 4 Mar 13

Cardiff is called Cardiff, Llanelli is Llanelli, The Ospreys are really Swansea, Neath don't want anything to do with them
So let's get real, it should have been Newport from the start - ok they may have lost 50 or so fans
But IF they were a winning successful side with a good set up like wot they used to have under Mr Brown then they would get at least 8,000 EVERY week
Keep on losing and they will be lucky to get 4,000

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Gooding says...
7:39pm Mon 4 Mar 13

I've ( reluctantly) always had a Dragons season ticket since their unfortunate inception. It has got progressively worse year on year. Time to put the Dragon to sleep and resurrect Newport RFC. Sack the coaching staff and team manager, appoint some professionals and maybe then we can get some interest and sponsorship in the side.

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Robert Shillabeer says...
7:41pm Mon 4 Mar 13

Keith Barnett wrote:
Cardiff is called Cardiff, Llanelli is Llanelli, The Ospreys are really Swansea, Neath don't want anything to do with them
So let's get real, it should have been Newport from the start - ok they may have lost 50 or so fans
But IF they were a winning successful side with a good set up like wot they used to have under Mr Brown then they would get at least 8,000 EVERY week
Keep on losing and they will be lucky to get 4,000

Good point, it is Cardiff Blues and Llanelli Scarlets but the media call them the Blues or the Scarlets, the Dragons however are referred to as Newport (as Sky do) that is a problem with anyone who lives outside Newport and it does annoy some people who quiet rightly feel it is an affront to their dignity to be ignored, but that's simply a media problem as we have three Premiership sides who have produced some good players over the years who went on to play for the Dragons and like Lloyd Burns Wales as well, and the Dragons have fed players to the Premiership so it's a two way thing.

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fedupjon says...
8:04pm Mon 4 Mar 13

Bicker as much as you like but you miss the point of the article.
The dragons are planning to move to a fantastic new training facility that may just improve their skills, although Bettws and lately the Velodrome offer good facilities.
The problem will be that they will still have the same poor quality players coached by equally poor quality coaches.
Back to the bickering with one comment. Does anyone actually believe regional rugby when it was first created could be held anywhere other than Newport.

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Gooding says...
8:08pm Mon 4 Mar 13

Robert Shillabeer wrote:

Keith Barnett wrote:
Cardiff is called Cardiff, Llanelli is Llanelli, The Ospreys are really Swansea, Neath don't want anything to do with them
So let's get real, it should have been Newport from the start - ok they may have lost 50 or so fans
But IF they were a winning successful side with a good set up like wot they used to have under Mr Brown then they would get at least 8,000 EVERY week
Keep on losing and they will be lucky to get 4,000
Good point, it is Cardiff Blues and Llanelli Scarlets but the media call them the Blues or the Scarlets, the Dragons however are referred to as Newport (as Sky do) that is a problem with anyone who lives outside Newport and it does annoy some people who quiet rightly feel it is an affront to their dignity to be ignored, but that's simply a media problem as we have three Premiership sides who have produced some good players over the years who went on to play for the Dragons and like Lloyd Burns Wales as well, and the Dragons have fed players to the Premiership so it's a two way thing.

Ever stop to think that teams would rather be playing Newport than the Dragons? Friends from across the bridge think it is an affront to call a team playing out of Rodney Parade 'Gwent Dragons'. The market men and media also find it easier to promote a team as Newport. It tells us where they are from! Newport has always been a regional side anyway, much like Cradiff and Llanelli. Dose of the reality salts needed by some!

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Dai the Milk says...
8:19pm Mon 4 Mar 13

With the correct investment and the will on both sides (Newport RFC and the rest of Gwent), yes. The perfect location would have been (and still could be) Cwmbran. It is quite central, has no real ties with established top clubs, is easily accessible from the M4 and the rest of Gwent, has plenty of free parking, actually has a town centre with shops and restaurants, is neutral in terms of being either a 'valley' town or city and has a stadium facility crying out for reconstruction and full use. It was a realistic and viable option both at the inception of the Dragons and in 2005/6.

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Keith Barnett says...
8:28pm Mon 4 Mar 13

Cwmbran has a great rugby history
NOT. We could call them Cwmbran, Newport, Gwent Dragons (with free parking)!
It would cost millions and would be a total waste. The facilities at RP are fine and arguably with the best potential atmosphere in Welsh rugby

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Robert Shillabeer says...
9:02pm Mon 4 Mar 13

Keith Barnett wrote:
Cwmbran has a great rugby history
NOT. We could call them Cwmbran, Newport, Gwent Dragons (with free parking)!
It would cost millions and would be a total waste. The facilities at RP are fine and arguably with the best potential atmosphere in Welsh rugby

Don't know about atmosphere but the facilities in Cwmbran are not great and have recently been downgraded which is sad from an athletics view point, Bedwas has no facilities, Cross Keys not much better and parking is virtually non existant. The only ground that comes anywhere near the standards is Rodney Parade and with the Bisley stand is now much better so overall is the only viable ground, parking is a bit of a weakness though but there is a multi story only a ten minute walk away over the new crane bridge. Pity other grounds in Gwent couldn't be upgraded to provide better facilities for supporters. No contest really.

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Dai the Milk says...
9:20pm Mon 4 Mar 13

Keith Barnett wrote:
Cwmbran has a great rugby history
NOT. We could call them Cwmbran, Newport, Gwent Dragons (with free parking)!
It would cost millions and would be a total waste. The facilities at RP are fine and arguably with the best potential atmosphere in Welsh rugby

But its a failure and will continue to fail. That's why we are discussing alternatives. You don't need a town name in the title of the team anyway (as your own supporters argue frequently. See the above posts). The 'best potential atmosphere'? How many more years do people have to wait for it to realise its potential? It is heading for the waste paper bin precisely because it was founded on parochialism of self-interest.

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bafta says...
9:23pm Mon 4 Mar 13

Please Robert refrain from mentioning your valley roots it's like Lord Haw Haw claiming to be British
Many valley people have simply stopped watching rugby . The point of the regions is to be inclusive. The Dragons are exclusive and have such have missed the opportunity to have the support of many of those who no longer go to live rugby matches
For those who want a Newport super club we wish you the best

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Dai the Milk says...
9:30pm Mon 4 Mar 13

bafta wrote:
Please Robert refrain from mentioning your valley roots it's like Lord Haw Haw claiming to be British
Many valley people have simply stopped watching rugby . The point of the regions is to be inclusive. The Dragons are exclusive and have such have missed the opportunity to have the support of many of those who no longer go to live rugby matches
For those who want a Newport super club we wish you the best

Could't have put it better.

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Dai the Milk says...
9:37pm Mon 4 Mar 13

Robert Shillabeer wrote:

Keith Barnett wrote:
Cwmbran has a great rugby history
NOT. We could call them Cwmbran, Newport, Gwent Dragons (with free parking)!
It would cost millions and would be a total waste. The facilities at RP are fine and arguably with the best potential atmosphere in Welsh rugby
Don't know about atmosphere but the facilities in Cwmbran are not great and have recently been downgraded which is sad from an athletics view point, Bedwas has no facilities, Cross Keys not much better and parking is virtually non existant. The only ground that comes anywhere near the standards is Rodney Parade and with the Bisley stand is now much better so overall is the only viable ground, parking is a bit of a weakness though but there is a multi story only a ten minute walk away over the new crane bridge. Pity other grounds in Gwent couldn't be upgraded to provide better facilities for supporters. No contest really.

I did say 'with the correct investment and the will on both sides'. The stadium, hugely underused, has had its athletics status downgraded owing to the condition of the rubber track. That is an irrelevance in this argument. In terms of the other reasons on my list, it beats RP hands down.

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Keith Barnett says...
10:12pm Mon 4 Mar 13

Dai the Milk stirring as usual.

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Dai the Milk says...
10:17pm Mon 4 Mar 13

No........just looking for a solution to a sinking ship. What constructive ideas have you come up with?

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silurix says...
10:26pm Mon 4 Mar 13

Dai , this is just waffle. To make a "constructive" suggestion you must
give some credible suggestions for where this investment is cominhg from.
And who the hell are "both sides".

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Gooding says...
10:41pm Mon 4 Mar 13

Dai. I work in a valleys school. Wasn't so long ago that the pupils all sported Newport RFC shirts and attended games at Rodney Parade. Don't seem to see them nowadays down there at all. Kid yourself if you think it is the 'N' word.

Who funds a move to Cwmbran? Newport RFC selling off Rodney Parade? How much would it cost to rebuild a condemned stand that hold about 500 people. There is no hospitality, no covered terracing, lack of facilities. Oh, and the small matter that a rugby pitch doesn't fit inside an athletics track!

Think you have an anti-Newport chip on your shoulder.

It was proposed that Wales move their home fixtures to Bridgend not long ago. The argument then was it was more 'central'. That was equally stupid!

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Keith Barnett says...
10:42pm Mon 4 Mar 13

Constructive idea Dai - just get a winning coach and winning team!
Simples as they say in Cwmbran
Nothing to do with the name of the team or location
Get winning and the crowds will come. We just need a small injection of about £1million to get a good coach and some good players

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Dai the Milk says...
1:03pm Tue 5 Mar 13

Silurix, If you don't know who the two sides are in this argument then where have you been for the past ten years?

Gooding, all the obstacles you throw up are surmountable 'with the will of both sides'. Don't Edinburgh play inside a track? Who wants the track there anyway, apart from a few athletes who could be accommodated elsewhere. The authorities have allowed the track to fall below standard so how badly is it wanted in this location? I have no anti-Newport chip on my shoulder. I have an issue with the way everything was done from day one. Along with thousands of other boycotting fans.

Keith, In order to build a winning team you need people coming through the turnstiles. See my previous comments about how this might be done.

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JoJoJoJo says...
1:19pm Tue 5 Mar 13

fedupjon wrote:
Bicker as much as you like but you miss the point of the article.
The dragons are planning to move to a fantastic new training facility that may just improve their skills, although Bettws and lately the Velodrome offer good facilities.
The problem will be that they will still have the same poor quality players coached by equally poor quality coaches.
Back to the bickering with one comment. Does anyone actually believe regional rugby when it was first created could be held anywhere other than Newport.

If the Dragons are moving to a "fantastic new training facility" does this mean the kids can start using Bettws school again?

I admit the Dragons need all the help they can get and I appreciate the comment about poor quality players and coaches but surely this is all good?

Better facilities for the Dragons can only be a good thing and the kids getting the school back much the same.

Sick of being negative about the Dragons must look at this as being all good.

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DaiFrank says...
8:22pm Tue 5 Mar 13

Robert Shillabeer wrote:

Raging Bull wrote:
As a gwent rugby fan I support the dragons as do the rest of my family.However the only merchandise I will buy for myself or any members of my family is the merchandise than does not have N**port splashed on it.Dragons and the dragons tail symbol fine.How much income is our region losing because of this.Gwent Dragons every time N**port NEVER!!!
I agree the Newport bit does put quite a few people off buying some merchandise. I have some Gwent Dragons and simply the dragon emblemed stuff but it is getting harder to get them these days. But wont cut my nose off about it. Rep shirts have the full name on it because the regions name is Newport Gwent Dragons other stuff simply has the regions emblem on it. Until the name is changed to Gwent Dragons it won't change the level of out of Newport support but I suspect the name change may never come.

Why don't you both go and watch a side without the name NEWPORT in it. Then you won't have to drive through NEWPORT, go to RP at NEWPORT, and watch a team play in NEWPORT type colours with NEWPORT on its shirts and owned/controlled mainly by NEWPORT RFC... what a sad pair you both are! If it's that bad go a tend to your gardens and dream of a team without the name you dislike so much. Did I mention NEWPORT enough for you lol

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Dai the Milk says...
8:46pm Tue 5 Mar 13

Yet again, as if it was necessary, we have a NEWPORT fanatic spelling it out loud and clear for all of Gwent to hear, that this is obviously not a Gwent side but a NEWPORT side dressed up to look like a Gwent side. And they wonder why their gates are falling and the axe is hovering over their head. Will they never learn? If they were honest and stopped trying to dupe the rugby public, that wouldn't be so bad but they are treating the valley supporters as idiots and trying to pull the wool over their eyes. You can't do that for ten years though and keep fanatics like this hidden away for ever. Sooner or later they reveal their true colours.

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silurix says...
9:04pm Tue 5 Mar 13

Dai the Milk wrote:
Silurix, If you don't know who the two sides are in this argument then where have you been for the past ten years? Gooding, all the obstacles you throw up are surmountable 'with the will of both sides'. Don't Edinburgh play inside a track? Who wants the track there anyway, apart from a few athletes who could be accommodated elsewhere. The authorities have allowed the track to fall below standard so how badly is it wanted in this location? I have no anti-Newport chip on my shoulder. I have an issue with the way everything was done from day one. Along with thousands of other boycotting fans. Keith, In order to build a winning team you need people coming through the turnstiles. See my previous comments about how this might be done.

" With the correct investment and the will on both sides (Newport RFC and the rest of Gwent)"

Dai - I know that "the rest of Gwent" exists as an abstract term to contrast with Newport RFC but in 10 years of watching I have never seen anything concrete, resembling "the rest of Gwent", emerge as a coherent body capable of exercising "will" or contributing investment. Basing your arguments on non-existing entities devalues your assertions. I could just as easily assert that when Terry Matthews finally comes on board with his billions the Dragons' problems will be solved. My assertion would at least be based on someone real , even though it is just as unlikely as yours to come about.

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Dai the Milk says...
10:11pm Tue 5 Mar 13

Silurix, It is precisely deprecating comments like that ('non existing entities') which cause you to believe that the 'rest of Gwent' does not exist. When Gwent people stand shoulder to shoulder with people who share your views, this is picked up on and they don't come back for a second helping. Therefore I perfectly understand why you feel 'they' don't exist. They don't want to exist at Rodney Parade. They have seen through the scam. Hence your type alienate the very ones who might have saved the Newport Dragons. Alas, as predicted and about to be revealed in the not-too-distant future, you and your type will soon have no Newport side to support in the top flight either.

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Keith Barnett says...
10:23pm Tue 5 Mar 13

Dai stirring again!

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Dai the Milk says...
10:42pm Tue 5 Mar 13

Keith, the other posts are doing the stirring. I am just offering reasons for your predicament. People failing to heed the warning over many years has resulted in your current dire situation.

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silurix says...
10:48pm Tue 5 Mar 13

Dai the Milk wrote:
Silurix, It is precisely deprecating comments like that ('non existing entities') which cause you to believe that the 'rest of Gwent' does not exist. When Gwent people stand shoulder to shoulder with people who share your views, this is picked up on and they don't come back for a second helping. Therefore I perfectly understand why you feel 'they' don't exist. They don't want to exist at Rodney Parade. They have seen through the scam. Hence your type alienate the very ones who might have saved the Newport Dragons. Alas, as predicted and about to be revealed in the not-too-distant future, you and your type will soon have no Newport side to support in the top flight either.

sorry Dai - you're a waffler and incapable of arguing honestly. Some of what you have expressed above is bordering on delusional. I feel sorry for you.

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CM1 says...
11:17pm Tue 5 Mar 13

Ha ha, if Terry Matthews came on board it would be called Newbridge Dragons or Usk Valley Dragons; anything BUT Newport! Thankfully, I don't live in Newport, so I can tell you that there is another part of 'Gwent', as I live in it!!

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CM1 says...
11:57pm Tue 5 Mar 13

...ah, Terry Matthews, now there is a man who knew the merits of leaving Newport out of the branding!

...sorry, couldn't resist but you walk straight through that door!

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silurix says...
10:15am Wed 6 Mar 13

CM1 wrote:
...ah, Terry Matthews, now there is a man who knew the merits of leaving Newport out of the branding! ...sorry, couldn't resist but you walk straight through that door!

CM1 - your slightly childish comment bears no relationship to what I actually said. Try reading it again - a bit more carefully this time.

PS. I would have no problem with any name the Dragons chose to play under. I don't get hung up on trivialities. I am as much a proud man of Gwent as you are.

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Dai the Milk says...
11:38am Wed 6 Mar 13

silurix wrote:

Dai the Milk wrote:
Silurix, It is precisely deprecating comments like that ('non existing entities') which cause you to believe that the 'rest of Gwent' does not exist. When Gwent people stand shoulder to shoulder with people who share your views, this is picked up on and they don't come back for a second helping. Therefore I perfectly understand why you feel 'they' don't exist. They don't want to exist at Rodney Parade. They have seen through the scam. Hence your type alienate the very ones who might have saved the Newport Dragons. Alas, as predicted and about to be revealed in the not-too-distant future, you and your type will soon have no Newport side to support in the top flight either.
sorry Dai - you're a waffler and incapable of arguing honestly. Some of what you have expressed above is bordering on delusional. I feel sorry for you.

Silurix, You are the deluded one and I feel sorry for you. How can you conclude that 'the rest of Gwent exists as an abstract term'? How bizarre. I suggest you jump in your car and take a drive 12 miles north and have this conversation in one of the pubs with knowledgeable rugby fans. They will make you look like what you are.

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silurix says...
2:32pm Wed 6 Mar 13

Dai the Milk wrote:

silurix wrote:
Dai the Milk wrote: Silurix, It is precisely deprecating comments like that ('non existing entities') which cause you to believe that the 'rest of Gwent' does not exist. When Gwent people stand shoulder to shoulder with people who share your views, this is picked up on and they don't come back for a second helping. Therefore I perfectly understand why you feel 'they' don't exist. They don't want to exist at Rodney Parade. They have seen through the scam. Hence your type alienate the very ones who might have saved the Newport Dragons. Alas, as predicted and about to be revealed in the not-too-distant future, you and your type will soon have no Newport side to support in the top flight either.
sorry Dai - you're a waffler and incapable of arguing honestly. Some of what you have expressed above is bordering on delusional. I feel sorry for you.
Silurix, You are the deluded one and I feel sorry for you. How can you conclude that 'the rest of Gwent exists as an abstract term'? How bizarre. I suggest you jump in your car and take a drive 12 miles north and have this conversation in one of the pubs with knowledgeable rugby fans. They will make you look like what you are.

Dai - its difficult to have a rational debate with someone who doesn't understand basic written english. As Gordon Ramsey said "it's like talking to a f****** breeze block". What you ascribe to me exists in your own mind only. Its not what I said.
Anyway , I have done my best. I shall leave you to your own invincible ignorance.

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DaiFrank says...
8:58pm Wed 6 Mar 13

Dai the Milk wrote:

silurix wrote:

Dai the Milk wrote:
Silurix, It is precisely deprecating comments like that ('non existing entities') which cause you to believe that the 'rest of Gwent' does not exist. When Gwent people stand shoulder to shoulder with people who share your views, this is picked up on and they don't come back for a second helping. Therefore I perfectly understand why you feel 'they' don't exist. They don't want to exist at Rodney Parade. They have seen through the scam. Hence your type alienate the very ones who might have saved the Newport Dragons. Alas, as predicted and about to be revealed in the not-too-distant future, you and your type will soon have no Newport side to support in the top flight either.
sorry Dai - you're a waffler and incapable of arguing honestly. Some of what you have expressed above is bordering on delusional. I feel sorry for you.
Silurix, You are the deluded one and I feel sorry for you. How can you conclude that 'the rest of Gwent exists as an abstract term'? How bizarre. I suggest you jump in your car and take a drive 12 miles north and have this conversation in one of the pubs with knowledgeable rugby fans. They will make you look like what you are.

Dai the Milkmaid check your history carefully. Early 16th Monmouthshire. 1974 becomes Gwent. 1990's no more... prior to 16th century only 'upper' and 'lower' Gwent existed and certainly not in the form as you imagine it today. And 'imagined' is the correct word. Gwent is an 'imagined community' as Prof. Benedict Anderson once wrote or 'imagined geography' as Prof. Edward Said once wrote, in other words in only exists in your imagination. ps. I wrote my PhD on such matters. Trevor Fishlock once rightly stated that Monmouthshire was historically a 'tennis ball' county between England and Wales. It was always the odd one out mainly because its 'political' allegiance was aligned to Oxford (England) but it had a 'spiritual' location towards the Bishop of Llandaff. Now out of the title NEWPORT Gwent Dragons which do you think has any basis in reality? ... cheers your friend the 'fanatic' (Dr).

[quote][p][bold]Dai the Milk[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]silurix[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dai the Milk[/bold] wrote: Silurix, It is precisely deprecating comments like that ('non existing entities') which cause you to believe that the 'rest of Gwent' does not exist. When Gwent people stand shoulder to shoulder with people who share your views, this is picked up on and they don't come back for a second helping. Therefore I perfectly understand why you feel 'they' don't exist. They don't want to exist at Rodney Parade. They have seen through the scam. Hence your type alienate the very ones who might have saved the Newport Dragons. Alas, as predicted and about to be revealed in the not-too-distant future, you and your type will soon have no Newport side to support in the top flight either.[/p][/quote]sorry Dai - you're a waffler and incapable of arguing honestly. Some of what you have expressed above is bordering on delusional. I feel sorry for you.[/p][/quote]Silurix, You are the deluded one and I feel sorry for you. How can you conclude that 'the rest of Gwent exists as an abstract term'? How bizarre. I suggest you jump in your car and take a drive 12 miles north and have this conversation in one of the pubs with knowledgeable rugby fans. They will make you look like what you are.[/p][/quote]Dai the Milkmaid check your history carefully. Early 16th Monmouthshire. 1974 becomes Gwent. 1990's no more... prior to 16th century only 'upper' and 'lower' Gwent existed and certainly not in the form as you imagine it today. And 'imagined' is the correct word. Gwent is an 'imagined community' as Prof. Benedict Anderson once wrote or 'imagined geography' as Prof. Edward Said once wrote, in other words in only exists in your imagination. ps. I wrote my PhD on such matters. Trevor Fishlock once rightly stated that Monmouthshire was historically a 'tennis ball' county between England and Wales. It was always the odd one out mainly because its 'political' allegiance was aligned to Oxford (England) but it had a 'spiritual' location towards the Bishop of Llandaff. Now out of the title NEWPORT Gwent Dragons which do you think has any basis in reality? ... cheers your friend the 'fanatic' (Dr). DaiFrank

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CM1 says...
9:55pm Wed 6 Mar 13

Aw, silurix, you are such a grouch! Newport supporters are so uptight!

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Dai the Milk says...
11:23pm Wed 6 Mar 13

DaiFrank wrote:

Dai the Milk wrote:

silurix wrote:

Dai the Milk wrote:
Silurix, It is precisely deprecating comments like that ('non existing entities') which cause you to believe that the 'rest of Gwent' does not exist. When Gwent people stand shoulder to shoulder with people who share your views, this is picked up on and they don't come back for a second helping. Therefore I perfectly understand why you feel 'they' don't exist. They don't want to exist at Rodney Parade. They have seen through the scam. Hence your type alienate the very ones who might have saved the Newport Dragons. Alas, as predicted and about to be revealed in the not-too-distant future, you and your type will soon have no Newport side to support in the top flight either.
sorry Dai - you're a waffler and incapable of arguing honestly. Some of what you have expressed above is bordering on delusional. I feel sorry for you.
Silurix, You are the deluded one and I feel sorry for you. How can you conclude that 'the rest of Gwent exists as an abstract term'? How bizarre. I suggest you jump in your car and take a drive 12 miles north and have this conversation in one of the pubs with knowledgeable rugby fans. They will make you look like what you are.
Dai the Milkmaid check your history carefully. Early 16th Monmouthshire. 1974 becomes Gwent. 1990's no more... prior to 16th century only 'upper' and 'lower' Gwent existed and certainly not in the form as you imagine it today. And 'imagined' is the correct word. Gwent is an 'imagined community' as Prof. Benedict Anderson once wrote or 'imagined geography' as Prof. Edward Said once wrote, in other words in only exists in your imagination. ps. I wrote my PhD on such matters. Trevor Fishlock once rightly stated that Monmouthshire was historically a 'tennis ball' county between England and Wales. It was always the odd one out mainly because its 'political' allegiance was aligned to Oxford (England) but it had a 'spiritual' location towards the Bishop of Llandaff. Now out of the title NEWPORT Gwent Dragons which do you think has any basis in reality? ... cheers your friend the 'fanatic' (Dr).

DaiFrank, I don't care what you have a PhD in. Gwent exists. It exists as a geographic area though not a political one. It fills sufficient pages in Yellow Pages to convince me that it is there in reality. It is also sewn onto the Dragons' shirts, albeit it in much smaller writing. So somebody must agree with me. They don't give two s**** about your PhD either.

[quote][p][bold]DaiFrank[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dai the Milk[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]silurix[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dai the Milk[/bold] wrote: Silurix, It is precisely deprecating comments like that ('non existing entities') which cause you to believe that the 'rest of Gwent' does not exist. When Gwent people stand shoulder to shoulder with people who share your views, this is picked up on and they don't come back for a second helping. Therefore I perfectly understand why you feel 'they' don't exist. They don't want to exist at Rodney Parade. They have seen through the scam. Hence your type alienate the very ones who might have saved the Newport Dragons. Alas, as predicted and about to be revealed in the not-too-distant future, you and your type will soon have no Newport side to support in the top flight either.[/p][/quote]sorry Dai - you're a waffler and incapable of arguing honestly. Some of what you have expressed above is bordering on delusional. I feel sorry for you.[/p][/quote]Silurix, You are the deluded one and I feel sorry for you. How can you conclude that 'the rest of Gwent exists as an abstract term'? How bizarre. I suggest you jump in your car and take a drive 12 miles north and have this conversation in one of the pubs with knowledgeable rugby fans. They will make you look like what you are.[/p][/quote]Dai the Milkmaid check your history carefully. Early 16th Monmouthshire. 1974 becomes Gwent. 1990's no more... prior to 16th century only 'upper' and 'lower' Gwent existed and certainly not in the form as you imagine it today. And 'imagined' is the correct word. Gwent is an 'imagined community' as Prof. Benedict Anderson once wrote or 'imagined geography' as Prof. Edward Said once wrote, in other words in only exists in your imagination. ps. I wrote my PhD on such matters. Trevor Fishlock once rightly stated that Monmouthshire was historically a 'tennis ball' county between England and Wales. It was always the odd one out mainly because its 'political' allegiance was aligned to Oxford (England) but it had a 'spiritual' location towards the Bishop of Llandaff. Now out of the title NEWPORT Gwent Dragons which do you think has any basis in reality? ... cheers your friend the 'fanatic' (Dr).[/p][/quote]DaiFrank, I don't care what you have a PhD in. Gwent exists. It exists as a geographic area though not a political one. It fills sufficient pages in Yellow Pages to convince me that it is there in reality. It is also sewn onto the Dragons' shirts, albeit it in much smaller writing. So somebody must agree with me. They don't give two s**** about your PhD either. Dai the Milk

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Owain Vaughan says...
8:21am Thu 7 Mar 13

To quote a familiar contributor to this site: "Gwent does not exist". What you refer to as "Gwent" is actually Monmouthshire. The historical kingdom didn't extend beyond the river Usk - it certainly didn't extend as far as Ystrad Mynach!

Given that people can't even agree on the name of the "region" that this team is supposed to represent it has no chance of survival.

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silurix says...
9:50am Thu 7 Mar 13

Gwent exists in law as "The preserved county of Gwent". Its purpose is political - to define an area containing a set of parliamentary constituencies whose boundaries can only be altered against each other and not against any outside the area. It is composed of five statutary authorities ; Blaenau Gwent , Monmouthshire, Torfaen, Newport and Caerphilly. In law it is therefor a political and a geographic entity. It also defines an area for the provision of certain services i.e. hospitals and police. It does not exist as a county or a political administrative area. There is no mayor of gwent ( though there is a high sheriff ). Make of it what you will.

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Dai the Milk says...
10:16am Thu 7 Mar 13

All academic now. My PhD in Waste Removal in Wales shows me where this rugby monstrosity is going.

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Owain Vaughan says...
10:53am Thu 7 Mar 13

The so-called "preserved county" only exists for the statutory provisions of the archaic offices of High Sheriff and Lord Lieutenant. Neither of those offices is political.

The restriction on parliamentary constituencies not crossing its boundaries was removed by the Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Act 2011. The areas for the Police service and hospitals are not based in any way on "preserved counties".

The very fact that there is a discussion about the name indicates its lack of suitability.

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silurix says...
11:01am Thu 7 Mar 13

Dai the Milk wrote:
All academic now. My PhD in Waste Removal in Wales shows me where this rugby monstrosity is going.

Dai , you've been saying this for the past 10 years. Are you sure it wasn't a PhD in Wishful Thinking? Its possible you may be right this time, but don't write them of too soon. They always seem to battle on. Fingers crossed eh!

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silurix says...
11:34am Thu 7 Mar 13

Thanks for the update Owain . Have the proposed 2011 amendments been implemented yet? The 5 statutory authorities still constitute the "preserved county" as far as I remember. It seems the area contained coincides with neither Monmouthshire county nor any conception of Gwent. As I have said earlier I'm not fussed by names - either Gwent or Monmouthshire would give a good idea where the region was basically located. These seem to raise hackles though so a non-specific name may be the best answer.

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Owain Vaughan says...
12:05pm Thu 7 Mar 13

The Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Act 2011 received Royal assent on 16th February 2011. There hasn't been a reshuffle of constituencies yet, but the "preserved counties" no longer play a part in any possible configuration.

You are correct in your assertion that the five unitary authority areas still comprise the "preserved county of Gwent". However, the 1996 boundaries are as wide as the 1974 boundaries were narrow:

The 1974 boundary excluded Monmouthshire areas on the east bank of the Rhymney River and the 1996 preserved boundary includes Glamorgan areas on the west bank!

I agree that this area is close enough to the real Monmouthshire boundaries, but does the rugby region have any officially-defined boundaries?

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silurix says...
2:27pm Thu 7 Mar 13

I think the regions are defined by the clubs allocated to them by the WRU rather than any lines drawn on a map.It looks as if the region area maps reasonably well onto the reserved county area but I have seen no official confirmation of that.

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silurix says...
2:34pm Thu 7 Mar 13

to make it clearer - all the clubs in the Dragons' region appear to belong to one of the statutory authorities in the reserved county.

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Dai the Milk says...
4:47pm Thu 7 Mar 13

All irrelevant, academic drivel for people who live in dust-filled offices. Gwent exists and is included in the names of thousand of businesses. This rugby set-up should have been much much more inclusive since day one. Unfortunately, selfishness won the day. The results are there for all the world to see....or make fun of.

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Goldy_Lookin_Clart says...
4:54pm Thu 7 Mar 13

If only Ebbw ad not been the lead team running Dragons we wouldnt ave this boring conv like.

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